4 color Halm Jet questions

[Robert Castel-De-Oro]

on the computer screen, in one of the setting screens theres a light envelope and a dark envelope,try it on the dark setting

There's no computer screen on a P-47

 

[Volga]

Not to mention you need a degree in computer engineering to figure out that counter.

 

[Robert Castel-De-Oro]

Send me a picture of the Photocell in the aligner section. Depending on which model you have, you may just have to re-teach the sensor. Which is very simple. Have you tried to re-set the timing of the Proximity Sensors behind the exit drum back-lash gear?

 

[Volga]

I haven't but, I'll admit to not really knowing what I'm looking for. I found an old copied manual. I don't think it was for this press, but it's close. It had a page for timing, but of course it was folded in half when they made the copy. I can't get a picture until Monday, but I certainly will. As an aside, I really appreciate your help Robert. I gave your info to the bigger paychecks. The problem is they spent so much money (thousands) on that idiot here in Indiana who, by the way, was hired by the GM not the owner, that he doesn't want to tell the owner that it's in worse shape than when we got it. The owner thinks it's in perfect condition.

 

[Robert Castel-De-Oro]

Timing on a P-47 is different than that of a 2-Color Jet. By the way, was that guy from Indiana **** ****

 

[Volga]

Yeah. What a *****. If I wasn't standing in the room he just sat on a pallet on the phone. If you need anymore proof... when he was "training me" I told him I needed to see how to set up a 9x12. He said he told my GM that it took around 8 hours (I'm not kidding!) to set the press up for that size and my GM said he didn't want to waste a day. I told Dave I needed to at least see what I was getting into. He then proceeded to climb on a stool and attempted to remove the gripper fingers on the main drum. He said you need to pull the gripper fingers on every other bar. So after about 20 min trying to pull the 1st finger out with needle nose pliers he realized there were holes in the fingers not slots. So after dropping the little bolt inside the press 3 times he said I wanted to get a bucket of those because I was going to drop a lot of those in the press. I'm not making this up. That's about the time I noticed the cams on the side of the drum and asked him why you couldn't just disable every other cam. He said "this is the way I've always done it"! Believe me, I could go on and on.

 

[Robert Castel-De-Oro]

I figured it was. The only time you'd need to remove the cam followers is if you're running 10x13's... 8 hours to set up a 9x12?? Bullcrap!! Unlike Dave being merely a so-called technician, I also ran Jets for 20 years, besides fixing them. You can see my Jet Press Solutions Facebook page on jobs that I've done, along with customer comments. If your boss needs any information, he can contact me

 

[Volga]

I have no doubt it would take him 8 hours to set it up, trying to do it the way he was. Trust me, I've watched those videos. That's good to know about the cams though. I don't think I've tried a 9x12 2up. I also gave the link to my GM. I don't know if he bothered to look at them. I'm sure you can understand the position I'm in. I've worked in this plant for 25 years. Probably 20 since the son took over. He knows I don't ******** him. If I sat down and told him the whole story he'd likely hire you. The problem is, although he'd ***** the GM out, he wouldn't fire him. I deal with the owner roughly once every couple months, I have to deal with the GM multiple times a day. The owner would ***** at me once. My GM would make my day miserable hourly. I'm in a tough spot. I'll try to upload that picture today.

 

[Robert Castel-De-Oro]

I have no doubt it would take him 8 hours to set it up, trying to do it the way he was. Trust me, I've watched those videos. That's good to know about the cams though. I don't think I've tried a 9x12 2up. I also gave the link to my GM. I don't know if he bothered to look at them. I'm sure you can understand the position I'm in. I've worked in this plant for 25 years. Probably 20 since the son took over. He knows I don't ******** him. If I sat down and told him the whole story he'd likely hire you. The problem is, although he'd ***** the GM out, he wouldn't fire him. I deal with the owner roughly once every couple months, I have to deal with the GM multiple times a day. The owner would ***** at me once. My GM would make my day miserable hourly. I'm in a tough spot. I'll try to upload that picture today.

Tell your Owner it could be something very simple or something very difficult with a press that old. The only way to determine the actual problem is to visually inspect your press. That press is obsolete and some parts may be difficult to acquire. On my way to Sacramento CA to install & train operators on a SJPLUSXL. Here’s my contact number if they have any questions 714-745-7805

 

[Volga]

If it was my decision I would have had you out here 4 months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the owner would hire you or, I don't know how much he paid for it, and considering the money he blew to have it "refurbished", he may decide to just boat anchor it. The problem isn't that, the problem is the drama I mentioned in my last post. It's gotten to the point that anything under 75,000 the GM is running on a Hamada with a Thompson! I run a 6 color 74 so since I'm the only person that has a clue how to run it, I go over to small press when there is a large envelope order. If I was over there all the time, this problem would have been taken care of one way or the other months ago.

 

[Volga]

Shockingly, I went in to take some pictures and my GM said he might even have you in. I'll believe it when I see it though. I'm not sure exactly where those proximity sensors are but I got a couple pics of the gear side exit that I'll post along with the aligner sensors. There are some marks on the backside of the rail. Some are obviously marks the operator put on there. There is another mark that is hard to see, but it looks like it's scribed into the rail. I can't tell if it's factory. Some are probably dirt.

 

[amir norozi]

Hey,I've had my fair share of press headaches, but your Halm P-47 Jet situation sounds like a real nightmare. I respect how you've taken matters into your own hands—40 years in the game speaks volumes. It sounds like a sensor issue, especially with the first unit's impression being sporadic and units 3 and 4 syncing up incorrectly. Have you checked for worn proximity sensors or timing adjustments on the cam followers? Sometimes, even a loose connection in the control panel can cause havoc like this.What’s the most frustrating part—troubleshooting or the constant cleanup?

Greetings,

I've recently had an old Halm P-47 4 color Jet dropped in my lap. I've run about every brand of offset press there is in my 40 years of printing. Never ran a Jet. The powers that be moved this press from Texas to Indiana. The guy they sent down there to train on it retired before we even got the press running here. We had some idiot here in Indiana that was (according to him) supposed to know everything there is to know about repairing Jets. Guy was a complete disaster. He came here 3 times and every time the press was in worse shape than when he got here. I managed to get my hands on an operators manual that wasn't specifically for this press but it's close. I used that to train myself.

All that being said, here's my problem. The 1st unit comes on impression when it feels like it. It will run fine for an hour or two then refuse to go into impression unless I trip it manually. I cycle the power, nothing. Come back the next day, it works for an hour or two. I've moved the impression trip sensor forward and back, made sure the grippers on the impression cylinder aren't obstructed. The other problem (which I believe to be related) is 3 and 4 come on impression at the same time. Not a problem for 3 but 4 comes down early and prints on the back cylinder before the envelope gets there. 4 comes off late as well, so if I miss one it prints on (usually) 2 impression cylinders which means roughly 30 envelopes in the garbage. You can imagine what a pain in the *** it is to wipe 8 impression jackets every time you shut it down or miss an envelope.

As I mentioned I am new to Jets but certainly not new to running offset presses. If there are any old Jet ops around that might have some insight it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Volga]

Hey,I've had my fair share of press headaches, but your Halm P-47 Jet situation sounds like a real nightmare. I respect how you've taken matters into your own hands—40 years in the game speaks volumes. It sounds like a sensor issue, especially with the first unit's impression being sporadic and units 3 and 4 syncing up incorrectly. Have you checked for worn proximity sensors or timing adjustments on the cam followers? Sometimes, even a loose connection in the control panel can cause havoc like this.What’s the most frustrating part—troubleshooting or the constant cleanup?

Fortunately for my sanity, I'm on STD. Going back in about 6 weeks. I'm sure it's some kind of timing issue. I'm still not sure exactly where those proximity sensors are. I'm going to double check the gripper stations. There is definitely some wear where the fingers meet the pads, although it would kick off if there was contact. Are the sensors on the actual gripper bars or does the sensor read the cams as they pass by? I'm also still not sure what the exact position should be for those eyes on the feed table. At this point the ball is in the owners court. Up to him if he wants to waste the money he spent on it. Even though it probably wasn't that much as you can see by the pictures.

 

[Sid Wilkins]

Greetings,

I've recently had an old Halm P-47 4 color Jet dropped in my lap. I've run about every brand of offset press there is in my 40 years of printing. Never ran a Jet. The powers that be moved this press from Texas to Indiana. The guy they sent down there to train on it retired before we even got the press running here. We had some idiot here in Indiana that was (according to him) supposed to know everything there is to know about repairing Jets. Guy was a complete disaster. He came here 3 times and every time the press was in worse shape than when he got here. I managed to get my hands on an operators manual that wasn't specifically for this press but it's close. I used that to train myself.

All that being said, here's my problem. The 1st unit comes on impression when it feels like it. It will run fine for an hour or two then refuse to go into impression unless I trip it manually. I cycle the power, nothing. Come back the next day, it works for an hour or two. I've moved the impression trip sensor forward and back, made sure the grippers on the impression cylinder aren't obstructed. The other problem (which I believe to be related) is 3 and 4 come on impression at the same time. Not a problem for 3 but 4 comes down early and prints on the back cylinder before the envelope gets there. 4 comes off late as well, so if I miss one it prints on (usually) 2 impression cylinders which means roughly 30 envelopes in the garbage. You can imagine what a pain in the *** it is to wipe 8 impression jackets every time you shut it down or miss an envelope.

As I mentioned I am new to Jets but certainly not new to running offset presses. If there are any old Jet ops around that might have some insight it would be greatly appreciated.

I recommend checking the impression timing cams and ensuring the sensors for units 1, 3, and 4 are clean, aligned, and calibrated to avoid overlapping signals.

 

[Volga]

Thanks for the advice Sid. The real problem is finding those sensors. I'm sure I'm looking right at them but I don't really know what I'm looking for or exactly where they are. As I mentioned in previous posts I don't have an operators manual so I'm kind of flying blind. Robert mentioned in a previous post something about re-teaching the sensors on the aligner rails. No idea how that's done either.