2 DC 240/250´s or 1 DC 5000 ???

Hello everybody, i have some doubts...

I need to upgrade mi print shop, now I have a DC12 whit fiery xp12.
I just print only on a 11x17 (cover 80 or 100lbs) But I’m not sure which machines to buy, on this moments my print volumen is 6,000 per month, but I hold a contract to print 12,000 to 14,000 per month.
I was thinking to buy a 2 Docucolor 240/250 or 1 DC5000 (come with Fiery EXP50)
A sales person have a 240, 242, 250 and a 252 come with bustled controller and for extra $$$ come whit a Fiery EXP250 or CREO cx250, which machine and what controller its better???
I need help!!
Thanks in advance.
Rom.

 

A tough decision, but not a bad one to have to make

I only have one 242 right now, but since no one else has jumped in yet...

In general I like the idea of having two machines so that if an issue develops, I can continue running at 1/2 speed at least. I like having a reference machine to troubleshoot with too - with canons I found it quite helpful to have an identical machine side by side. Right now I'm still 1/2 canon 1/2 xerox though so I only have the one docucolor 242. But I've been really happy with it so far.

If doing more than a hundred prints in each run, you'll definitely want an OHCF for each DC240/250. At least the bypass is much better than the canons, but still the OHCF makes it much much better. I just have the bustled controller -- it's not the fastest in the world, but since I don't do much variable data, an extra 30 seconds rip time per job doesn't justify the cost to upgrade the rip for me.

The 5000 would be faster on heavyweight 2 though, right? (is the dc5000 25 ppm 11x17 heavyweight2?) The 250 seems to be only about 10 ppm on 11x17 heavyweight2. Coated2/Coated3 run a bit slower than that too on the small docucolors. Then there is registration accuracy which probably favors the dc5000, but I'm not sure how much it impacts the work at hand. I wouldn't want to use my 242 for business cards, but everything else is fine for my needs on it with a little trail and error to dial in the position of the print on each media a couple times a month. How does the cost per click compare?

 

Hello Jeff, thanks for your answer,
I am looking for quality and registration on 2 sides.
I make a business cards (2 sides), invitations and postcards.
May be the best option are to get 2 machines right?
There a lot of difference on rips?? (bustled, fiery and creo).
wich is better???

thanks again
Rom

 

Well, for business cards I'm not so sure. I absolutely love our DC242 - great machine - but sheet registration is definitely its single weakest point. I think a larger xerox would do much better in this regard. Our 242 is fairly ok during a run, but despite using the fiery tray alignment it seems I also have to trial and error adjust each different stock at least a couple times a month, and I see slight skew on the tail end of some stocks especially if running 2-sided - e.g. running kromekote in two passes, I see a skew on the second side which I compensate for by rotating the second page (I'm running 12x18 sheets destined to be trimmed and folded into 8.5x11 finished booklets) by 0.2 degrees. I turn (180 degrees) the second pass to allow it to feed better as otherwise the slight curl causes jams in the OHCF. And one limitation of the 242 is that it won't automatically duplex (even lightweight) coated (some people have said they duplex coated by running it as heavy instead but then the enhanced gloss doesn't look as good and there must be a reason xerox don't allow it, so I've only done this on very short runs like a few 1-off books.)

I'll have to let some of the pros chime in on this. I know some love their creos but I've only had fierys and honestly most of the jobs I run are jobs that take at least 30 minutes to print so an extra 30 or 60 seconds of rip time doesn't impact my workflow enough to spend more for a faster rip. I'm not asking mine to do very much in terms of variable data or imposition, etc. right now.

 

Rom, are you planning to get rid of the DC12?

 

We just put in a 252 with the bustled controller and run business cards 2 sided, postcards, fliers or anything else I can throw at it. We love it for color and registration. We used to have Canon and Konica Minolta and the Xerox outperforms them both. We purchased ours as a demo and it with came with all the bells and whistles you can get on it, but no need for the fiery unless you want speed and real critical on color and do variable data.

 

I'm glad you are liking your 252 as well as I've liked our 242 over the past couple of years -- really can't figure out how I made out without it whenever I use one of the machines we upgraded from to run a job!

Do you know if your machine has a skew fine adjustment mechanism?
I heard once that there is/was a skew fine adjustment screw option available to fine tune any skew, but haven't seen more details or a picture of exactly what this is or does. On ours the only tool I have is the fiery 2-sided tray alignment, but a little bit of skew on the tail end can still be an issue that I have to compensate for or plan for.

 

As jeff says, the 5000 should be faster on heavier stock, it also has more professional tools (like all of the 'pro' machines) on it to keep the quality up but is it worth two 250s? my answer would be no. It is an older generation machine and according to my engineer, not as reliable.
Jeff - as an aside, the skew adjustment screw you mention is situated on the far end of the imaging unit and places an uneven pressure on the sheet as it is imaged- in effect- slowing down one side over the other. Apparently it is pretty crude and should only be used for really bad distortion.

 

Sorry, just to clarify, the skew adjustment screw is on the unit to the left of the fuser and the screw is on the back end of the unit (ie. towards the back) it's only really meant to be used for removing consistant skew- not second-side fishtailing.

 

I would forget about the DC5000. it is too old and the skew is not satisfactory at all. And of course there is the problem of the fuser which having oil, requires much more servicing to combat oil streaks. Also the DC5000 suffers considerably from the smile problem...which is as follows.. Mix any two colours and you can get low density down the edge of the pages. My advice would be to go for the DCC700. It is the next version after Docucolor 240/250 family. It has a better registration system. It also has a decurler post fuser. It is available with high capacity paper trays like the DC5000. It has all of the finishing like the DC5000. Also the DCP700 is 70 pages per minute. I currently have one happily doing 100k+ per month even though it is only spec'd at 35-50k per month.

 

as for me, take better 2 Docucolor 240/250 :
1. consumables are more available.
2. consumables are cheaper ( if take for 2 machines you can ask for discount)
3. if 1 copier will break, other will be working.
4. 2 Docucolor 240/25 are cheaper than 1 DC5000.
5. You can print different jobs on both machines in same time.

 

dc 700 will cost like 2 Xerox 550.
better take 2 Xerox 550