Trapping issues

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by daniel77, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Hi,we are a young team and want to satisfy our clients and ourself.We do plate compensation inorder to get best dotgain on our presses.We used to match our print to our proof.We have 85-95% on bodony but sometimes we get some trapping issues.Can someone gives us tips about this..is it our inks or our printing sequence K C M Y? The problem is not everytime.We have good control of our chemistry and pressure on press.thks
     
  2. printmanjackson

    printmanjackson New Member

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    Check with your ink supplier to see if you are using stagger tack inks.
     
  3. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Ok..thanks we'll try to get these info..
     
  4. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    describe when the problem arises and how it shows itself. If you can include a picture of the trapping problem lets see it.
     
  5. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Ok..i'll do some pictures of the readings tomorrow..thanks
     
  6. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    no need for pictures of trap readings. Id like to see pictures of the trapping issue as it shows on the printed sheet. Also info as to the conditions that seem to show the problem.
     
  7. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Sorry for not understanding..our situation is that when we do readings when printing,we are good in density,dotgain etc but our overprint delta E is out of tolerance and ink trapping also this make our print be a little difference with our proof.we want to solve this problem because without the this we match the proof at +/- 85-90% as I told you.
     
  8. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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  9. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

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    Looks like a tack issue between Cyan and Magenta according to the picture you posted. Did you tried to interchange the C and M units?
    Contact your ink supplier or change the inks and see the results.
     
  10. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    As mentioned by Aquazi chances are a poor trap between the magenta over the cyan. This is not at all unusual and it can be easily remedied by switching sequence. The problem as I see it (and I may get blasted for this) is that management in many companies want to be able to control the entire ink on paper process to the point where everything can be assigned a number, and as long as you follow the formula you will have success. Im all for technology, but I feel its really important that we still keep focused on the fact that multicolor printing is still a craft, requiring skilled people to man the presses. As nice as it would be for upper management to be able to invest in the highest tech equipment and hire low dollar people, familiar with computers to run their presses, I just don't see it happening any time soon. All the trap numbers and test print forms do for me is to verify what my eyes and years of experience already know to be a trapping problem. The remedy for which any seasoned press pro knows how to deliver. My suggestion after this long rant is to say not to get so hung up on the numbers, as the numbers ONLY work when all other aspects of the process is perfectly under control. We all know that this is rarely the case. All it takes is for a little inconsistency in the ink production process for all your numbers to skew. Im just using the ink production process as an example because we are talking about a trapping issue. The variables that make for an imperfect process come to us from many different directions. The ability to be able to sort through the variables will come much quicker to someone who has experience putting ink on paper and NOT the prepress manager that wants to assign everything a digital equation.
    My bet is that there are still like like minded press people who will agree with me, even if they are afraid to say so in a public forum. And then there will be of course, the company owners and upper management that want to believe with all their wallets, (I mean hearts) that Im full of bull. A balanced mix of technology and skilled tradesman will reap the best results!!!
     
  11. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

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    I totally agree with turbotom...Printing is still a craft. Management people think that buying a color measurement device and applying some curves in the prepress is all that is needed for good printing. They forget the hundreds of variables that effect the print result. They think that the pressman's job is just to push buttons and print.
     
  12. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Thanks Aquazi & Turbotom..l'm totally agree with both of you..turbotom i think that you have pointed deep in our profession and words will not be enough for me to THANK you as in our small island we try to be as best as can but we have not enough support.we have done tests with other inks(won't mentioned)but don't fit our needs(we reach the Lab with too much density)..and changing sequence is a disadvantage for us as we usually print sea views(more cyan than magenta) therefore we don't get the good blue..we have not yet get the right inks..i heard a little about toyo and k&E wwhich we want to try..and with some sharings from guys like you will certainly make us and others grow up..
     
  13. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    About the management for me it is an interesting challange all we need are the right arguments and the know-how(that's why i'm on this forum) and as you both said it's not just push button and print..
     
  14. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

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    Did you tried Daihan Kleentec G7 plus series, its a south korean ink and many printers in Pakistan using it for G7 certification.
     
  15. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    I'll try thanks..just keep in touch
     
  16. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    I would tend to agree as a general rule that the best results for printing what you call "sea view" will happen with k,c,m,y sequence. This generalization comes with the understanding, as stated earlier that all the variables to the process are in order. In this instance I would look at the ink tack as the most influential variable. Not only would you need an ink set that has the correct tack, but an ink set that can deliver that strength and tack consistently batch after batch. This is where perhaps spending a bit more and dealing with a company thats known for consistency may in the long run be more economical.
     
  17. daniel77

    daniel77 Member

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    Ok great thanks again we'll work on it.
     
  18. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    if words alone are not enough to thank me you could always send me a check. Only kidding!!! I offer whatever help I can with the hope of sharing my love of this profession that has been good to me for many years. My rants are usually aimed at people who try to make small what we in the pressroom actually do.
     

  19. Bill Borcicky

    Bill Borcicky Senior Member

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    turbotom1052, perfect answer ! I have never seen any press print the same job on different days make the quality look the same as the time before (not without help). As you say ; "a balance mix of technology and skilled tradesman will reap the best results"
     

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