Why are used Heidelbergs so expensive?

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by ILPrint, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    I'm looking to buy a one color press to do single color work. Its seems that for the price of a 30 year old Heidelberg I can get a 10 year old Ryobi or most other brands. Is there such a big difference in print/build quality, or are there a lot of other factors such as marketing, customer service, ect. Are there any other other brands that are comparable to Heidelberg?
     
  2. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    simple :)

    I know some HD presses that are over 50 years old and still running well.
    How meny Ryobi's of this age do you know ?

    Well , that's one reason.
    The most important reason is that printers are happy to pay the price.....due to the first reason :)
     
  3. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2009
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    KARACHI PAKISTAN
    You can look for a Komori.
     
  4. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    I will be harder to find a one color Komori then find a cheap HD.
    What size are you looking for ?
    I will see if i know one at a low price (they are not allways that expensive :)
     
  5. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    I'm looking for a 14" x 20". Thinking of getting an older GTO. Is it possible to get the same dot quality with conventional dampening as with alcolol dampening?
     
  6. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2009
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    KARACHI PAKISTAN
    Yes it is possible, but Alcolor dampening system is much more reliable and consistent than conventional dampening and if set correctly, its trouble free.
     
  7. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    Dot qualiity can be controlled by:
    Blanket quality
    Ink quality
    pressure settings
    bearring condition
    cleanliness of the cylinder rings
    corect ink/water settings
    and as little as possible Alcohol - if you want the best dot... forget about Alcohol.

    Alcohol makes the printer's life easy , but damages the ink by mixing water in to it and breaking some of it's molicules.
    An excelent printer on a good press will get the same result without the Alcohol

    GTO 52 one color conven' should be about 10000 US$
    Good luck
     
  8. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    Thank you for the advise. There is just so much contradicting info out there. The manufacturers advertise that alcohol is better and that kompacs or crestlines are even better. Is that just because of ease of operation and consistency? If you take speed and effort out of the equation, and assume an attentive operator, which system can produce the sharpest dots, best solids, and the highest lpi?

    If conventional dampening can achieve the best results, does that mean the process of litho was perfected as good as is possible decades ago, and since then any advances in technology have been to make it faster and easier? I do like the look and feel of the older GTO's, btw.
     
  9. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    Alcohol was put in to the systems to overcome some issues that could not be solved easier.
    Today you can solve the same issues without Alcohol that has more bad then good in it , but it is still an "old men's trade" and lot's of printers who can use it , still do , and will go on no matter what.
    Printers who get to work with other dampening solutions , will tend to stick to them .
    The Alcohol is not the only issue changed in the damp' systems.
    The basice wish is always to use as little water as possible without getting any scam on paper.
    To do that you need a roller system that will suppy the sheet evenlly with a thin film of water , rather then a big layer of water that will mix in to your ink.
    The older systems are not as good as the newer ones on this point , and you will be best to use a press that was built for the use of Alcohol , (Alcolor , Lomorimatics , Rolandmatics & so onj) and do it with out the Alcohol itself , but with a good solution that is cheaper , better and will not evaporate in to the air like the Alcohol by the gallons....
    Good luck
     
  10. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    Thanks, much appreciated!
     
  11. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    I believe you can get a good 2 color sprint Komori 28 for the same price of a good GTO , and you will have better results and be able to work Alcohol free (hard task on a GTO)

    Meny
     
  12. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    I have read people on here saying good things about Komori. Are they better or easier to use? Very hard to find though.
     
  13. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Israel
    Komori one color - no way , not this small size anyway.
    2 color sprint - not an issue
    I can find you a good one that has Komorimatics and it will print very well with . without Alcohol , on the same paper stock a GTO can handle , yet 28" in size.
    Easy to handle ? for a HD printer - no , but if he is open minded then no problem.
    For a Komori or any other press operator - not an issue at all - one day in to the job and he is on production mode.

    Meny
     
  14. ILPrint

    ILPrint Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    illinois
    Thanks, I would appreciate that.
     
  15. aqazi81

    aqazi81 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2009
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    KARACHI PAKISTAN
    You can print without alcohol on continuous dampening systems, but you need IPA free founts that will eliminate the use of alcohol, but the press rollers are key to successfully print without alcohol. You will need a special metering roller, or pan roller in case of Heidelberg with a shore A hardness of 18 to 22.
    Alcohol is used in continuous film dampening systems to increase the viscosity of the water and lower the surface tension. It also reduces the conductivity of the fountain solution.
     

  16. FSA

    FSA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2011
    Messages:
    312
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    ILPrint

    I didn't read what your run length is? And is 14"x 20" the size you need or are you looking for 2 up 8 1/2 x 11 with bleeds. If your runs aren't long look at a DI machine because it prints a dot way better. And talk about really fast make ready no water issues. Old HD work good, but you still need a GOOD operator which are getting harder to find these days. Any older presses will need TLC in some way. My there are a lot of presses out there for sale some good some not, either way how many dollars do you have in your budget? And how much space do you have to put the press?

    Good luck
    FSA
     
Loading...