ERROR 88 on Polar 115 EMC.

Dear Forum Members,
I need your technical assistance to resolve the lingering problem on our polar 115EMC cutter.When cut buttons are depresses,machine knife comes down to cut but knife always hang on upward stroke not getting to top dead center.
I have tested the proximity switches at TDC and serviced the safety bolt solenoid and also replaced card IAR but still without success.
Can someone with vast exposure on this machine guide me to further troubleshoot this problem as our production is currently disrupted .
I will be grateful for a prompt response.
wunmi-50

 

Hi wunmi!

The proximity switches of the safety bolt, the solenoid of the safety bolt and card IAR may cause problems during the down stroke.
The change over position from downward to upward is approximately 5 mm after touching the cutting stick. After that, all (!) problems are related to the "knife upstroke control function".
If the knife is in the upward movement the gearbox limit switches with relays (in newer machines proximity switches and the board MHY) taking over until the knife is in the UDC.
If I understand correct the knife upstroke gives problems?
In this case you have to answer one question. Do you have gearbox limit switches or proximity switches at the gear box?

Coloured paper

 

Hi,
Grateful for your prompt and educative reply.We have proximity switches at the gear box and machine number is 6131512.
Where is the MHY unit? Pls assist with further information and relevant drawings to guide me through the repairs.
Wunmi-50.

 

Your machine is from 1991. And at this time Polar change from gearbox limit switches to proximity switches. All machine like this come with the electrical drawing 115CE-E-30.00-228781. The drawing is called "controls for knife upstroke and additional valves for dual channel hydraulics". Do you have this drawing? If not send me an Email address.
I forgot - to find the MHY you can follow the cable from the proximity switches. Mostly on the rear side of the machine is an additional sheet metal box (12 X 15 cm). There you can find the MHY. Before you work with this board let us first find the problem using the drawing. This is mostly easier.

Coloured paper

 

Dear C.P.,
Thanks for your assitance thus far. I do not have this drawing and will be highly appreciative if you send it to me.Meanwhile,i am combing the gearbox proximity cct for possible fault.
My mail address is:
alfrejiny@yahoo.com
Wunmi-50





m

 

Hi wunmi!

Two drawings and a instruction are on the way to you. Let me know about the result of the tests. Good luck.

Coloured paper

 

Hi,
Thanks for your assistance,i will look forward to them.However i am sure i will still require your able guidance and will certainly get back to you.
Wuunmi-50

 

i am here

 

Coloured paper

On a 1991 76em machine with mhy - proximity switches, stops on the return stroke around 30mm off table, 200 degs, think tracing its might be sensor 3 playing up, although works if checked, thoughts?

The machine can work for hours sometimes without a problem, normally when there lol

could you send me a copy of the diagram via email please, rspblake@aol.com

think unrelated, last week it stopped on return stroke but was shuting down on second ear on ffm 30mm from top, i found brushes and hydraulic belt very worn, replaced, left working.

Also have u any diagrams for the little board that sits on the ffm card, not problem related, just interested what it does to the control.. thanks in advance for your help..

 

I have service manua for Polar 76 em. please contact me ercupa@turbonett.com.ni BUT i will charge a little

thank you in advance, sincerely.

eng. ernesto cuadra
managua, nicaragua. central america

 

Hi rspblake

Your problems can be related to the normal cutting control circuit or to the FFM function.

FFM (full function monitoring) is a British thing. Besides the normal cut circuit control older machines in the UK have a special box with some relays. The knowledge is in the hands of former and actual Heidelberg service-engineers. They have the correct drawings as well. You should try to find some former Heidelberg employees. There are for example two brothers. But I do not know if they still work. If you want I can ask.

Coloured paper

 

Dear Sir:
Please reach me to my email:ercupa@turbonett.com.ni

sincerely.

eng.ernesto a cuadra
engineer field service for Heidelberg +Polar
managua, nicaragua. central america

 

Thanks Cp

Just wonder if you can send me an email with what you had?

Yes I know might give them a ring.

Its covered in the tech serv manual 2 on the Hy91 system, but the mhy was uk and Germany released, so thought you might have something covering 1991 76 machines. 

Regards

Happy xmas and new-year

 

Hi rspblake

Yes, your are right. You have the normal control system with HK, IAR and KK (documented in the service manual 2). Beginning from 1991 you have worldwide the two channels hydraulic including the MHY, etc.(documented be some drawings and notes). And as well you have the British FFM. Because the service engineers during that time (the brothers) where often better than the designers from Polar (no joke) they left the knowledge on the island.
The normal control system is well known in Germany, the MHY as well. But with the FFM function the people at Polar just do not have the experience like the brothers in the UK. FFM includes timers and relay functions, which have to be in a special order. Today it is anyway hard to find somebody at Polar who knows anything. I could ask a retired instructor and he would send probably as well to the brothers.
On the other hand if the good mates looking for drawings we can help.

The graphic industry is a small family

Coloured paper

 

Yes small world of friends CP

I finally got 5mins 2 sit down and look,

I would of seen info about the signal delay board
FFM and so on in the inspection manual.

Got so much of my own stuff in head and in note form, never thought to go back.

looks like u have a later diagram, so would be nice to get a copy email, I've got a 76em 1990 here at moment

All the best and onwards too next year my friend

 

The electrical drawings which have been delivered with the machines 76EM from 6061001 up to 6062300 (all machine in 1990) are all the same.
The complete set is about 3MB and has 12 pages

The question would be now. Do you understand this? I ask because you need to know which function is used in your machine.
For example you don’t have gear box limit switches, but they are shown in the normal drawing. You have a special drawing for the proximity switches replacing the gearbox limit switches, but you have to know how to connect these things together. The same situation you have with all FFM-functions. If you don’t know how it works all the drawing may drive you crazy.

The last problem you have, that you are confirm to the EU or British law a high risk in case of an accident have. After touching a machine YOU take the full risk and not just for yourself.

It is up to you. Either you send me an Email address or you call the brothers

Coloured paper

 

Rspblake@aol.com

I've already have these 1990 diagram 76em 220d /2/3 and so on with remarks sheet.

Looking for any amendments is all for the hy91 system in use on the 1991 onwards machines

Safety is very important to me, I am fully aware of the dangers and requirements.

Bearing in mind todays litigious environment, I have to ensure that I work within the requirements of:

The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1992.
The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER 98).
And Including the blue book P.I.A.C. 1999 Safety Guidance

Knowledge has no value except that which can be gained from its application toward some worthy end.

Regards

 

CP, thanks for the email

Spend a little time making sure I fully understood how the Mhy functioned, little up date on fixed fault,
K1 reed relay was oscillating when b3 sensor high, x1 +24 proximity supply was low on one output down to +18, faulty cap, hair line crack was the only clue, metered well down on given value, also k2 output to cu10/ FFM staying high not changing on return stroke, replaced tr2 and k2, K1/K2 now correct operation

Happy new year

 

reach me: ercupa@netscape.net

superteto

 

Our Polar 115 EMC with serial number 5531470 is permanently locked with error 88. Despite having cleaned, lubricated and adjusted all the proximity switches on the rear left hand side of the cutter.

Replacing the AR card helped for a year of light work. Then by the end of 2014 the cutter started exhibiting error 88. We could restart the cutter and it would work for a while until now that it is permanently locked.

What should we do next?