Heidelberg or komori?

Discussion in '4-Color Offset Presses +' started by Bruce, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Bruce

    Bruce Member

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    Company I work for wants to buy a new 40 inch 6 color press with AQ. I would like to hear from pressmen who have worked on heidelberg and komori presses. Question is - which do you prefer and why? If you have experience on both presses latest technology it would be great to hear from you. Thanks
     
  2. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Your question is out of the question :)

    Komori is way better then all the SM/CD HD models.
    more usfull tech , more smart engineering and alot less problems over years & meny milions of top quality output.
    but pricewise - when you get to sell it on , you will allways get more for a heidelberg.
    Top quality , top durabillity over meny years , easy use - all go for the Komori.
    If you buy a HD , you buy with it a need for constant tech service and lot's of parts.
    been there , never again - for me...only Komori
    and soon is comming the LSX model - even better then any Komori known till now...
     
  3. mrheidelberg

    mrheidelberg Senior Member

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    ...................oh well you can but dream, lol

    I have worked both and i can safely say Heidelberg build a far better press than Komori.
    Better quality metals, user friendly electronic touchscreen, an excellent and easy to use perfector system, a feeder that has been fine tuned over the years so very few adjustments need to be made when using different stocks and a residual re-sale cost that any Komori owner would love to have.
     
  4. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Did You Only Work On Both?

    DID YOU ONLY WORK ON BOTH or owned them both ?

    When you have a Heidelberg you are connected by blood vessels to the part department.... and you know your service engineers well as you see them all the time.
    When you own a Komori , you hardly need parts and you do not hold the Komori engineer's tel # in your speed dail as you allmost never need them.

    This is prior to inspecting the actual print quality.
    6 months ago , in the gala evening for the "printer of the year 2007" in Boston one of the gold medal winners (global winner) was asket by an other winner what kind of Heidelberg he used to do the winning job...
    He replied - I used a Komori
    the one who asked answered - no wonder we could not beet you , we have a problem...

    The dot gain on a komori is lower (at same standard blankets , paper & pressure) and the print is way sharper.

    yes , they do not sell as good as heidelberg but,,,, by the time you need to sell them you made way more money then with a Heidelberg.
     
  5. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    I do believe I prefer....

    I'm with Meny here.

    I've run 26, 28, 40 inch Komori's in the 80's, sold them against Heidelbergs in the 90's and now in this century I run a printshop and guess what? Yep I put my money where my mouth was: I've bought L426, S226P, L428 and our latest is go on guess...a Lithrone 626EMP, management system, auto perfecting 2/4, auto washup, semi auto plate up. What a press!

    Why did I buy Komori? Low repair bills - the first three presses only needed the occasional part (usually consumable as opposed to catastrophic failure). As for residuals, that depends on the prevailing local market conditions and the perception of either product in that market. UK for example has perceived Komori as equivalent or better than Heidelberg for resale/trade in. We achieved, after 7 years of use, 45% of the original purchase price on our L428.

    I personally visited the Komori 40" build facility in Toride, Japan some years ago and was very impressed to see how these presses come together.

    I do believe that Komori has developed one of the best press marques in the world.

    Now I have to be objective and also say that Heidelberg is not a bad press - I suppose it depends what type of printing you do. We produce promotional colour print - so anything from business cards to brochures, booklets, posters. We don't venture into packaging or heavyweight boards.

    Nuggets of info.
    Makeready times are famously low - 1988 they did the world's first 6min 4col makeready. Without auto plate up!

    The world's first komori 40" still running in China

    Unless things have changed since I was in the sell zone... triple race taper bearings for impression, plate and blanket cylinders ensure minimum vibration levels compared to needle bearings.

    Double sideframes to maximise rigidity - this was done to cope with Japan's many minor earthquakes. (The first Heidelberg installed in Japan suffered greatly from doubling due to their single unit construction)

    I could go on & on, best thing to do is major research, talk to users of both and then see them in the field. Beware of only being shown flagship companies - try and find a printer at your level (whatever that is) and get to talk to the pressmen. They will be ruthless if they're anything like they are in the UK & Spain.

    Good luck (and let us know which one you go for)
     
  6. 640 Pressman

    640 Pressman Member

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    I think this can be argued to death just like Canon VS's Nikon but I've run both and prefer Heidelberg.

    I will admit that I haven't run a late model Lithron but I press checked several jobs at a trade shop that had one and I wasn't impressed. The auto plate hanging system ate several plates while I was waiting for press checks. In general the electronics looked like over kill but that could apply to a late model Heidelberg too. I was also unhappy with the color quality (fluctuation) but that could be the press operators.

    I've run a lot of Heidelberg's and have only encountered one press that required frequent service calls.
     
  7. Jameybiz

    Jameybiz Member

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    Depends on what you want to spend. Both presses run good quailty work. Komori will be cheaper and cheaper to mantain down the road. They dont seem to have the high part mark up as Heidelberg and Mits do. Example same switch company on two different presses. Komoris part was 175 dollars hedelberg was 325.
     
  8. birdz

    birdz Member

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    komori, if properly configured. Both of those manufacturers sell a base model press with little automation. Automation features are sold as optional add-ons so be careful when buying and make sure you've added all as much automation as you can afford.

    Automation is key.
     
  9. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    i have been a pressman for over 25 years, i have run both presses, all i can say is do yourself a a favor and go with the Heidelberg, i have heard allot of reply's
    from what sound like guys that dont actually run presses like
    <what does that mean ? or
    the key to what ?
     
  10. birdz

    birdz Member

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    I'm in the press service business, and I walk into 2 or 3 different printing operations a day. Heidelberg is not bad machinery but it's far from the best. Spending years and years inbetween units breathing blanket wash doesn't earn you much knowledge about which press has a better ROI. The OP did ask about what the press operator prefers, which is certainly an important consideration for the buying process. An unhappy pressman will be unproductive on a 5 million dollar press.

    "Properly configured?" This is in reference to the additional options you can add when buying the press. Additional features that automate common tasks to increase efficiency. Things like CIP3 prepress data, automated plate loaders, high pile stacks, etc. etc.

    "Key to what?" Key to making money with an efficient, reliable, and economical investment. Don't tell me you're printing for the fun of it.
     
  11. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    <bingo...

    that statement just makes me want to kick your a$$

    your a fat little pudgy guy right ?


    wrong again fat man i am an unhappy pressman and i run an 86 6c MO ,last week i printed a 64 pager for 1000 ,4/4 + w/t cover in 16 hours thats 17 4c makereadys 68 plates plus run 17000 sheets + overs with no auto nothing...so now what smat guy ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  12. birdz

    birdz Member

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    the unbiased "heidelbergman" wants to kick my a$$ and is calling me names
     
  13. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    :):):):) now im happy
     
  14. birdz

    birdz Member

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    earlier you seemed irate that i disagreed with you
     
  15. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    im not irate i just want to punch your face in...
     
  16. birdz

    birdz Member

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    aggression issues? I'm just text on the internet
     
  17. kchasse

    kchasse New Member

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    seems like a lot of you are familiar with the komori, I run an 86 Komori 26" 4-color. I am having issues with wrecking blankets every other day, the doubler works but the grippers pull from the headstops uneven sometimes due to multiple sheets piling up and sometimes due to a sheet going into the headstops crooked.... do you have any ideas or is there anything I can buy to fix this issue as my boss is not liking the expense. Thanks. Kiera
     
  18. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    dose that press not have a manuel sheet choke ? multiple sheets piling up ?
    wow ....be careful with that buddy..first before you ever go onto impression make sure it is going to run right those old lithrone.s can be kind of touchy
    pick the sheet separators up and let the air blast hit the top 30 or so sheets

    bring the slow down wheels all the way to the tail edge
    sheet to the point where they will stop then pull them back slightly
    so that the wheels carry the sheet all the way the head stop...i also run an older half size press ,today i ran a 6 page 13x26 sheet 100 cover 4500 sheets without a shut down one,if you want i will take a picture
    of the feedtable setup and send it to you its a heidelberg but but the feedtable setup is the same on both presses
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  19. 5150pressman

    5150pressman Senior Member

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    Check to see if the infeed wheels have even pressure.
    Also check the timing of the feeder. The sheets could be advancing too much into the headstop and gripper.
    If you are running a sheetsize like h-man13 did. Make sure you have wheels riding on top of the second sheet from the gripper. sometime if you don't have wheels on top of the 2nd sheet. When the side guide pulls the first sheet it will slightly throw the second sheet off. This happens more on cover stock then text.
     

  20. HeidelbergMan13

    HeidelbergMan13 Member

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    maybe he got fired...lol
     
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