Looking for thoughts on a GTO46

Was hoping someone could give some advice - I have a small business designing greetings cards. At the moment I farm out most of the manufacturing to a 3rd party but costs are creeping up and I'd like more control over stock levels and timescales so I've been considering taking manufacture in-house.
One such option was the possibility of an older 2 color GTO46.

At present we run poly plates on a DPM2340 - I was wondering if it's realistic to obtain reasonable 4c results from a combination of the GTO and the DPM? I realise we're not talking showcase level printing here, our demands aren't too high but we would require a reasonable photographic quality. Could anyone point out any potential issues or offer any suggestions/alternatives?

 

I think purchasing an A3+ digital machine would give you more control over timescales, quality, waste and stock levels.

Obviously quantities will question my suggestion

 

Thanks for the input data - we had looked at an Indigo 1000e but, being older technology, I really didn't think it was up to the job. Did you have anything in mind? I think an Indigo 3050 could be a good machine for our uses - on the one hand it would allow us to branch out but on the other hand it would probably cost around 4 times that of a GTO46 and I've been told running costs could be quite high too.

Quantities wouldn't be huge - probably only around 250k anually. There's time to manufacture in advance and spread over time so we'd probably run 30k-50k batches at a time.

 

a candidly word from an old printmen: don´t do it!
Suppose you would never get a proper product to reasonable costs. It´s not only a used printer that you need but the whole prepress aria, postpress like guillotine, groover etc. Time and experience - or a printmen.
Don´t know the situation in UK but here in Germany are too much print houses and every second provides web2print solutions. Prices are below cost.
For your volume could be easier and cheaper ( incl. shipping) if you send your data to a German print shop.

 

Thanks for the input Rossio. We already do some printing so have the CTP, pressman & guillotine already - the only requirement would be scoring. It may be the case that we can source cheaper production but for what we're paying at the moment, the single year equivalent would probably pay for the board cost and cost of the GTO - obviously from there the GTO is paid for and the following years we only have material costs to consider.

 

Have you looked at getting a used Heidelberg DI? Or even the Presstek (Ryobi) version of it? You could get a DI dirt cheap these days. I know Ryobi used to lease presses in the UK (i emigrated to Canada from there), maybe they still do.
A DI would certainly cut your production time down and could help you tap into the short run colour market as well. Worth a thought.

 

I hadn't actually William - I'd read a little about them when first released and had heard a lot of teething problems with them but will have another look.

 

The DI might be worth your time to checkout. You can probably pick up a cheap one for under 20,000£. The upside is not having to image plates, set color keys, etc... The DI supplies cost more than conventional press supplies. They will do a run length of up to 25k on a set of plates. They are 12"x18" format size.

 

Thanks - I've been reading up a little on the DI machines today. Most sources seem to suggest the Ryobi is superior but they seem pretty scarce in the UK. I'm just wondering if the Heidelberg will still be suitable, as they do seem more available. I see they're based on the QM46 which we have experience with, but the QMs had contamination issues with the common blanket.

 

We run both GTO 52s and a Di. Don't be put off by hearsay, the Di is a very capable machine so long as you keep it clean, there are some great deals out there for Classics too. Even if you've got the prepress I would advise against single col GTO route for numerous reasons, straight off the top of my head; firstly, at best, it will take 75% longer (4 passes not 1!) secondly registration and fit could/will cause you problems (especially if you leave jobs part finished overnight - no chance of reg!), thirdly you will have masses more wastage and make ready, fourthly you will be more liable to pressure marks etc. etc. We could always produce a job for you to see if this type of machine were for you - you would be most welcome to see it on press! ; )

 

The DI feeder and delivery is the same as the Quickmaster and the auto blanket washers are similar and maybe the roller train (?) but that's where the comparisons end. The DI doesn't share a common blanket but has each printing unit sharing a huge impression cylinder that is split into four, rather like a ferris wheel.
A totally agree with sunny_studley with regards to his comments. I ran a DI and a GTO 52 2 colour simultaneously for 5 years. The GTO is a great press but it is slow and a lot of work. The DI would breeze through the kind of work you are producing, though you do have to keep them clean. Having a good "waterless" ink is a must.
The new Ryobis are, apparently, a good press but I don't really think they would be made to last like a Heidelberg. One issue I would be concerned of with the DI would be if there were any electronic issues. The computer hardware is old technology and very expensive if it fails. Also, in the 5 years that I ran a DI here in Canada, the chains stretched and had to be replaced twice. Not sure if this is a common issue or not.
You can get some great deals on a DI but, as is life, you get what you pay for.

 

Thanks Sunny - it was actually a 2 colour unit I was considering but I get your meaning.

William - thanks for all the info. It's looking like the Ryobi's are too hard to come by here anyway, whereas there's a few QMDIs. I've read ghosting can be an issue on these, so my main concern was if this would become even more of an issue on heavy stock (350gsm).

 

I have owned both 46 and 52 multi color models of GTO over the years - Suggest you go with a 52 model rather than a 46 - sheet size on a 52 gives much better versatility by being able to run a larger sheet, and better sheet control in delivery when running heavy coverage - a 52 enables a nice margin of white paper around the image.
The 46 models are very good printing presses, but do have their limitations - also as time goes on, the 46 parts may become harder to get, whereas the 52 models are still relatively recent.

 

Hi britjag
are you selling your gto 46 ?
If yes please send me the pictures
printsnpkgs@yahoo.com

 

A single colour GTO with the right person running it can produce work to match any 5 colour on the market today. It takes time and skill tho which probably means it isn't worth doing anymore. Also, litho presses just don't like being left standing for long periods of time ... the rollers dry out, bit rust and so-on.

I wouldn't bother getting a litho press of any kind unless you have enough work to keep it running at least 10 hours per week ... they just don't like it.