State Of The Printing Industry.

Discussion in '4-Color Offset Presses +' started by William Taylor, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    As a matter of general interest and curiosity, I've started this thread to get an idea of what people think about the industry we work in.
    What are your opinions on the state of our industry?
    How has it changed.
    How do you see things going in the next few years and what do companies need to do to survive in this harsh climate.
    Infact, will we have an industry?
    This thread is aimed at the industry in general, big and small, press and copier, small format and large format.
    I'd like to hear from press feeders to C.E.O's.
    Lets see where we think we are heading.
    I look forward to your comments.
     
  2. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    It's a good question William, personally I've seen many changes and not for the good. The biggest change IMO is the abundance of internet gang printers.

    Whereas before this was a source of high profit for any printshop, the lowering of prices has damaged the industry beyond belief.

    In fact printers are their own worst enemy, continually chasing work at any price.

    With such low returns, will anyone in the small to mid sector be able or indeed willing, to afford to invest in capital equipment? I don't think so.

    I used to be quite upbeat, trends by their nature can go up or down, but since January we've seen such a marked slowdown in business in general that even the most optimistic among us would feel that it's going to take an awful long time to get back to where we were 5 years ago.

    Where that will lead is anybody's guess, but I reckon there'll be a lot less local printshops and more centralised hubs or the work will simply go overseas.

    Once the local print provider is gone you watch prices rise.
     
  3. alan42

    alan42 New Member

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    I can see the industry shrinking a lot in the next 5 years . More and more stuff is going online . Ipads for magazines and your basic e reader for books .

    I love printing but even I think it is much better to just download your Magazine on to a Ipad and e readers are just amazing .

    Printing is going the way of the music industry . Everything now is fast turn around , middle of the road to low quality .
    Even the new generation of ' printers ' are just console operators and know little about setting rollers or general maintenance . In my experience this is what employers want and the low margins demands .
     
  4. rolandman

    rolandman Senior Member

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    the last 3 yrs for us were quite bad, the worst that i can remember however this year has been great, we havent even really slowed down in summer this yr which is usually set in stone.

    we try to keep low overheads which is why i think we have survived these few yrs, and which is why alot of the big flash printers have gone bump.
     
  5. FSA

    FSA Senior Member

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    Good thread William, this industry is in a downward slide. I used to work for one printer full time with O.T. every weekend. Now I work mostly fulltime at a smaller shop and have 7 part time jobs to fill in the gaps. Dollars are tight, equipment isn't being maintained the way it used to be, making it harder to do my job, other operators don't care they just have givin' up on the quality. That is the offset side of life, but on the digital side my main job it holding it's own or growing, the copiers are going for 12 hours a day solid, so I do alot of cutting some days and the press just sits there. If print shop don't change with the times the doors will close. I have been to two auctions this year from printers that have gone under because the could not see how to change to meet the needs of there customer base, and a third at the end of this month. Today the printer really has to understand digital demand and learn to work with it not against it. 40% to 50% of our work today we do not see the customer, everything is done on line, and that number is only going up. The print industry has learn all over again or it will end up like the 8 track, dead. I'm proud to say all the shops that I work for are trying, chemical free plates that are 100% recyclable, with more stocks that are recycled, using veggie ink or soya, canola. Water missable washes, and more customers are demanding that for their products, so to stay in business it is everyday life to use what in the 90's was looked down at to be junk.
    FSA
     
  6. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    I think your right, FSA, companies have to evolve or die.
    Where i work offset is only one piece of a bigger picture.
    We do large format, Oce, legal copying, banners, web sites, colour copying and just about anything else.
    Each departmenthelps the others in slow times. That said, CSR's have to know all aspects of the industry, but they don't and so alot of mistakes get made.
    Same with salespersons. They are selling ten different medias as a "Jack of all trades, master of none".
    I think there is a future for print, particularly packaging as we'll always eat Cheerios but businesses will have to find other sources of income.
    As a pressman I am concerned how much this trade has been de- classified to the point of almost not bring recognised as a trade. Some places advertise jobs at rates that I was getting 10 years ago.
    Pretty soon you'll be getting the same rate flipping a sheet over as you would a burger!!
     
  7. timc

    timc Senior Member

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    Sad but true William Our trade as skilled craftsmen has almost gone Im proud of the skills i have and always will be Just sad the industry has gone the way of cheapest option for most bucks ( never always makes for a better job ) But thats life
     
  8. Michael4

    Michael4 Senior Member

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    So much negative feedback. The industry sure isn't what it used to be, but you have to look at a few simple facts, and it should lift your spirits (somewhat)

    No matter how you slice it, companies need printers and print companies. Online printing is growing, but who do you think runs these businesses? the same printers who used to run walk-in MMP locations, Action Graphics stores and so on.

    Your print experience is still valuable. It's time to take a piece of the wealth online printers are making. If you in a walk-in shop, then its time to re-market, get a website, hire a marketing employee. Keep in mind, these online companies are not the enormous companies people think they are. They are small staff companies, with the same machines you use in your shop.

    Print shops are failing due to their failure to adapt.
     
  9. graficworx

    graficworx Member

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    Everyone has great points about having to evolve as an industry. Those that saw this early on have become the major online trade printers. I can imagine that back when they started going online, many of the older printers probably said "what are you thinking, no one will every buy print over a computer". How times have changed. It seems like whenever I talk to an older printer, I always here the same thing, "print is dead". But, as was pointed out, there will always be a need for print. Computers have done more to actually generate more paper in contrary to the idea they should have reduced it. There will always be industries; healthcare, legal, education, government, that need massive amounts of printed materials.

    The gentleman that taught me to print was mocked by his peers when he bought a new Polar cutter in the late 70's, and again when he bought the first Linotype imagesetter in the early 90's. But he was able to turn around jobs quicker, and go directly from the fledgling desktop publishing apps straight to film. This gave him a huge advantage over guys still using cameras to shoot film, and he prospered accordingly. Sure, the press he used to print with was still from the 70's, but he had the insight to adopt the technology while it was still early enough to not be behind the curve.
     
  10. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    Some great posts here. I've certainly stirred the proverbial hornets nest.
    I think everyone is in agreement that the print industry has to evolve to "survive", but maybe unclear as to what segments of the industry are most at risk.
    Though I feel that the internet will never kill the print industry, it is certainly eating into it by means of online books and magazines. Even Canadian Printer can be viewed online! Newspapers are slashing run lengths or closing completely because you can read the news on your phone on the train ride to work, most of the time for free.
    Like I said, the internet will NOT kill the industry but I do wonder if the next generation of Facebook Texting Twitterites will really be interested in reading the Globe and Mail or buying a copy of Hello magazine. I think not.
    Now Michael4. I'm certainly not trying to be negative, far from it. But I am a realist. The industry has seen some major improvements and benefits over the last 15-20 or so years namely PDF and CTP technology. In fact, the importance of these can never be overstated. Easier workflow methods, the elimination of film assembly and better on press colour profiles have greatly increased efficiency in a press house. But the fact remains, in the not too distant future each slice of the cake will get thinner and thinner for magazine and newspaper printers.
    So which parts of the industry can benefit? Like I said in an earlier post, packaging printers will always be needed. Plus, those mid sized printers and MMP style stores that offer large format, Oce etc as well as "Print on Demand" pick and pack services have a good chance, especially with online ordering options, another major plus for the industry.
    But what about us poor old pressmen? For us the job has never been harder. Crap paper from Asia, crap ink from everywhere, no need for a press feeder anymore and we want it done in half the time. No longer a "trade" so no journeyman wages for you. If you don't like it then there's ten others that will step right in because, to add to everything else, we are in a world recession. That's the negative impact of the "evolution" and the price we have to pay for a survivable bottom line.
    These are great posts. Hopefully we can keep this going. Cheers.
     
  11. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    HEy HEy guys , cheer up , it's only a matter of time & course...
    Yes , less books will be sold
    Right , less magazines printed
    For sure less adverts on paper , but , and this is the big but...
    the competition on selling products will only grow as every one can now build a Pad or an electronice gadget , but only if it is well noticest on the self the buyers will buy it.
    Every cow can make milk . but only the milk in the nice box will be noticed..
    It is now the time of the packaging and this is only growing by the hours.
    once you only made a box to put the product in.
    Then you needed it to look nice in order to sell
    today it must jump out of meny and this is the big change.
    packaging will only grow , lable will grow , any product that's connected to the selling of other products.....

    calm down , change direction , print will not go away so fast - only change direction
    More colors , more finishing at high end levels , more complex jobs
    Simply need to get ready , as 1-2-4 color jobs will not do shortly , it will all be 5-6 +++

    Yes , due to high cost . the small local printers will be out of this game and the bigger ones will grow more , but hey , if you wanted today some numbered forms , would you find someome to do it for you on every corner like 30 years ago ?
    Same amout of paper used or more , it is only what you print on paper that changes - go with the chagne , open your eyes and think outside the can.....yes you can :)
    FInd it hard ? call me , will be happy to help...
     
  12. xfactor printing

    xfactor printing Senior Member

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    What hurts me is the lessening ability to distribute printed cards, brochures, and newsletters with the post office with the USPS in its downward spiral. The USPS seems hellbent on driving themselves out of business. Higher rates = less volume = even higher rates = even less volume and so it goes. Postage takes up a higher and higher percent of the job. I wish I had been able to increase my price on printing as fast as the postage went up over the last 20 years! Instead print prices go down down down and postage goes up up up.
     
  13. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    How many trade schools out there still teach printing? Here in my area many of the trade schools have closed or dropped printing as a trade. But do offer design. I just don't see a influx of young tradeschool pressmen unless they are taught and trained on the job. And that can be rare with so many experienced pressmen out of work that get the nod instead.
     
  14. timc

    timc Senior Member

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    I remember when printing was a craft and art
     
  15. FFR428

    FFR428 Senior Member

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    To me it still is to an extent. Granted automation has taken things a lot further and some of the large format presses do everything. But the craftsman still applies his personal touch. And on the smaller and larger older offsets it's still pretty much hands on too. But I do understand and agree with your point.
     
  16. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    What courses are still running tend to concentrate on the whole industry instead of certain aspects of it. Its almost like they are priming kids for running a business instead of working in one. I do still prefer "on the job" training especially with good experienced pressmen who know the reality of working in the industry. You don't get that from schooling.
    I think its up to governments to subsidize training programs such as apprenticeships.
     
  17. William Taylor

    William Taylor Senior Member

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    Things are more automated but automation only helps when the conditions are optimal. Rollers don't set themselves or replace themselves when worn, neither do blankets or packing. Determining when these issues should be addressed is still part of the "art and craft" of printing.
     
  18. graficworx

    graficworx Member

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    Locally there used to be two community colleges that had offset press programs as part of their tradesman curriculum. Now those programs have been replaced by "digital arts". All they are being taught now is to do graphic design and design websites. Its been my experience that the younger designers, not having any idea how printing is done, produce what they think to be "press ready" files that require so much work to "fix", as compared to designers a little older who can produce actually press ready files.

    No, a word document is never going to be press ready. The same goes for powerpoint. 72 dpi is not good enough.

    My background is actually engineering, so I have had many heated arguments with some of these "designers" as to why they only need 72 dpi for web, but in print its a completely different process.

    Note to educators: If you are going to teach "digital arts", please teach your students how print is at least produced, so they won't complain when the pre-press department sends then back en email asking them for CMYK files instead of RGB. Or when they don't provide adequate bleed for the printing process being produced, spot colors instead of CMYK equiv., etc... etc... etc...

    </rant>
     
  19. PMS

    PMS Member

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    press operator

    I have been a offset sheet-fed press operator, running Heidelbergs, Komori's, and a variety of smaller (digital) presses over those years, but no more.
    I have been struggling to stay employed in the industry for at least 5 years now, and it's either part time or just 'no time' at all. It has cost my marriage and gone are the days I was always on the press, even on Saturday nights, while it was considered overtime. I have to say I'm done with printing, as I don't feel appreciated anymore. I know the PMS book inside out, know my paper names, have worked in research, etc. but the work is constantly pulled from underneath me. Good luck to those who manage to stay employed in the industry. Hang on tight. My days are over of washing up at 5:00pm.
     

  20. Inky

    Inky Senior Member

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    Good luck, I know a few people who have moved on. Give it a couple of months and you'll probably say it's the best thing you have ever done.
     
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