Miller TP 104 6 color press

Hi, I'm thinking of buying a Miller TP 104 6 color press with coater. Can anyone tell me if this a good press or should I run?

Thank you

Dan.

 

considering they stopped making them long ago even a "creampuff" of a press will be lacking in the automation required to really be competitive in todays commercial printing enviroment. If you buy it or any other press from that era be prepaired to deal with makeready times in the 1 hour range and thats with a fully experienced pressman thats familiar with that press. Most of the guys i know that would have the ability to run such a press would be pressman that would rather finish out their careers on newer equiptment where they dont have to do nearly as much manual labor. I can assure you that you will probably be hard pressed to find a viable talent pool to man your press.
Then there is the issue of parts availability. Its been so long since i myself have run a Miller press that i dont really know if there are parts available. You can be sure that a machine that old will be needing some parts to keep it up and running. Also there is the issue of finding someone to service the machine when the inevitable breakdowns occur. Now im sure there are probably still a few Miller mechanics out there ready to jump on the opportunity to work on your press but unless one of them is fairly close to your business you can count on spending lots of money for his traveling expenses.
Last but not least there is the issue of run speed. Im thinking that even the latest model Miller press was only capable of sub 11,000 sheets per hour run speeds and thats back in the day when the press was newer. Unless the press was really cared for with low impressions id think that youd be lucky to get 10,000 per hour run speeds out of it.
All of these things considered you need to be the one to judge if this machine would fit into your business model. I can however say this.... They were pretty stout pieces of iron, that back in its day were up to the task of cranking out some decent work in the hands of a good pressman. Miller as i remember them did write the book on perfecting. They did not however offer much in the way of a decent water system unless the press was fitting with an aftermarket water system like Dalghren, or Epic.
Unless this press is offered at a great deal id shy away from it for all the reasons mentioned unless of course youve got the inside track on a steady supply of work that can be priced at yesteryears rates.

 

wherabouts ae you dan, depends what sort of work your doing, if your not doig work that needs to be perfect i would go for it, they where built to last, yes the makereadys will take a while but im assuming if your looking at a miller theirs nothing int he price range that would be that much quicker

 

Thanks for your input rolandman and turbotom1052. I'm in RI and we do a ton of 4 color work on our 2 color Omsca/harris 226. It was built in 1975 and it prints a real nice dot. I'm told the Miller is a better quality press and the 6 color is being offered for a great price and It would be possible to rent the space were it is running, this will save me the cost of removal and installation. I really can't afford a newer press which is why I'm thinking of purchasing the miller. I'm aware of the long set up time but the size of this press will allow me to gang run work and I will be able to cut down my turnaround time. Thanks for the heads up on the parts and repairs so I'll look for someone in the area. If you know of a Miller mechanic in New England area, please give me their info. Is anyone running a Miller now?

 

I worked on a Miller TP104 years ago and I didn't rate the quality of the print, the one I worked one was knackered big time. If you buy an old press it's only ever going to be as good as it was in the year it was built (if you're lucky). You can't compare a press of this age with a modern press with regards to quality of print, speed of makeready or top running speed.

 

Millers are good presses and in the northeast you will have a better chance to find what I call a craftsman/pressman. Over all I would say that you would do better with a Komori or even an Akiyama press in the late 80's-mid 90's They will be priced a bit more but worth the extra money.

 

Fundementally the TP 104 is a good sturdy press. If you have a limited budget and production speed and makereadys is not an issue, then, as long as it is in good condition, you are doing ok. It is also easy to maintain electrically and mechanically. What year is it? Although there are fewer sources for parts, most repairs can be handled locally. I still have a few customers that run these machines.
www.controlgraphicsusa.com
Good luck

 

Hi Controlgraphics, thanks for responding. I gave man roland the serial number and they cant tell me what year it is but we guessed that it would be around 1993 - 1995. I just bought the press and some days I feel like jumping off a bridge. So many thing wrong with it but things are starting to look up. I've been doing a lot of repairs myself because the mechanics are sooo expensive. I have a wiz repair guy on the west coast that worked for Miller and he's been helping me by phone. Only major problem now is feeding glossy paper. It runs offset and card without any issues but when we hit the gloss the press just trips like crazy. I'll be installing side air blowers, maybe they will help. Do you know of any way to cheat the electric eyes? They stop the press from feeding even if the paper is straight.

 

Is this a MP104 or a TP104? (Fitted with manroland RCI or Miller C3 console?)
Running glossy paper should not be an issue with the eyes. However, if your feeding down the table is not good, you may incounter problems when running glossy. It could be attributed to other possible issues:
1. timing of feeder to machine is presently too critical
2. sheet drive down the table not positive. (May need better wheels and/or tapes adjustment)
3. electrical feeder timing has been changed in past and needs re-adjusting
I would check and correct the first two points, and then perhaps re-adjust the electrical timing sensor. Bypassing the eyes is possible, but I would not suggest it since it may cause blanket smashes.

www.controlgraphicsusa.com

 

when the machine trips is the sheet right up to the lays, i.e. are the eyes covered in full by the sheet or not? if not your timing probably needs adjusting

 

Sheet is over eyes when it trips. Sometimes not which tells me it has to do with the way sheet comes off the pile. Static! I ran some tinsel across sheet and up to cold water line on ceiling, I don't think it works. I did make some timing adjustments to feeder which helped a lot. I did notice that the sheet gets caught at the front of the pile at the flapper. Tomorrow I will install side blowers to separate sheet at the flapper. hopefully it will help. I also have to check powder sprayer, I have dial max out at 10 and it is barley putting powder to sheet which sometimes causes the press to trip (every now and then ink making paper stick together).

 

It is a TP 104 with new style C3 console. (computer screen on console) I did adjust the gap on the feed roller after flap which really helped. Wheels on gate is good, I will check the tapes tomorrow.

 

i have found in the past i get static on uncoated stock but coated tends to run alot better, have you watched to see if the suckers are picking hte sheet up fully, if not try increasing the pile from the foot on the sucker head (not sure what others call it but i mean the dial at the foot)

 

Their is no dial at the foot but it has an adjustment screw. Is this what you mean?

 

yes this is what i mean, sometimes if it is too Low it will not pick the sheets up fully but if it is too high it will pick doubles .

 

Press running better and For Sale or trade

Thank you everyone press is running better and printing nicely now. It seems to like card, bond and satin paper better. Gloss I guess will always be a battle. I've been told to print on dull stock and run the coater.

I decided to put the press up for sale or trade for a smaller format press because my arms, knees and back don't like the sheet size.

Please let me know if you know anyone interested.

thanks all.

 

I wouldn't like the size either if I had to load the paper. Back in the days when this press was current, the typical manning would call for a feeder operator. I would not have worked as a pressman, for a company that didn't man the press with an assistant. The lack of automation made working alone out of the question, when the guy down the street ran the press with 2 men.