Flkamin' foamin' Tecnotrans!!! Grrr!

Discussion in 'Komori Printing Presses' started by RichardK, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    OK not a Komori specific query, but our Tecnotrans unit has gradually started to produce more foam than you see at an Ibiza nightclub.

    Cleaned out tanks, checked for air leaks, reduced flow and return to minimum. Filter bags renewed as well. Changed back to 8% alcohol + fount solution.

    None of the above have made any kind of reduction to the amount of foaming we are getting. Adding anti-foam helps of course but an hour or so later and we're back to square one.

    The furious agitation in the reservoir is the main culprit but I can't see any way of reducing the turbulence. It's almost like the pump motor is spinning way too fast.

    Does anyone have a clue as to how to eliminate or control the foaming?
     
  2. jetscreamer

    jetscreamer Senior Member

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    I recently had the same problem, foam erupting out of the unit. I didn't try anti-foam because I'm not keen on adding more chemicals, I run 2% alcohol.
    My solution was to turn everything way way down (flow and return), when i say down I mean it takes 5 min to fill the pan in the morning, I thought this would give me other troubles but to my surprise it runs sweet. I've also stretched some cloth we use for padding around the top of height regulator in the pan to stop any bits of dried ink clogging the system.
     
  3. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    You know something jetscreamer? I just did exactly the same. :D

    The turbulence is now way down. I'll keep an eye on it during the shift and post the results.
     
  4. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    Looks like we've sorted it - reducing the flow and return to absolute minimum like jetscreamer did.

    Anyway one effect of an overly-aerated solution, as we found out, is that the float that measures the SG of the fount will not sit low enough ie it will always read as though there is not enough alcohol in the system.
     
  5. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Could be gum

    check if the gum on your plates was changed reacently - the gum comming off the plates and in to the water could be the reason.
    do you (as some do) put gum on your rollers when press is not in use ?
    if you do...STOP IT , this could help.

    let me know if any help

    Meny
     
  6. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    Hi Meny - plates come ready gummed from the ctp unit (we haven't changed the gum in years). We don't gum during shifts, only at shift end and even then by small amount on forme dampener and chrome...it's at washup stage so NOT in contact with meter roller or pan roller so shouldn't feed back into fount.

    But I will flag this potential cause to the pressmen and maybe they'll be more frugal with the amount they use. Thanks for the info.
     
  7. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    go for it :)

    I had a 2 year problem on a customer's press and all the town's amart ones and all the witches in the woods could not solve.
    A complete Technotrans unit was changed by Technotrans and it did not help......... but the day the gum was short and the rollers did not get gum for a few days , the fome was gone.
    The next week new supply of gum came in and ... so did the fome.

    need i go on ? :)
     
  8. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    Crystal clear Meny.

    FYI we use Unifin gum specially for AGFA LAP-V CTP processed violet plate. To be fair we always have had a fair amount of foaming whether the unit was Royce or Tecno - but at least our problem is under control for the time being. As I said before I will talk to our pressmen and get them to reduce the amount they use.

    Have a good weekend.
     
  9. 5150pressman

    5150pressman Senior Member

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    I noticed if the temp of the water is real cold it'll foam more.
     
  10. OLLIE1

    OLLIE1 Member

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    Max Flow, no foam!

    Hi Richard K, first of all i need to thank you for all the interesting and professional,
    info you have posted, i have silently taken your advice many times and i appreciate your positive and helpfull info.
    In regards to the foaming issue i am tops with water units! i run my water unit at maximum flow and around 7-8 degrees, it does'nt matter what fount/additives ever used, no foaming....PEARIOD.
    Here's the trick...on both my old komori 425 ss sprint (baldwin unit) and my new Lithrone (Royse) + the little Alcolour GTOZP unit i've removed all the 'venturi suction' lines and gravity fed water from press to a container, in that container theres a pump with float switch that pumps back to tank. NO AIRATION..NO FOAM. + its a reliable clean system, most of the komori's over here in NZ are fitted with this set up now. Trust me its AWSOME!..P.S....Kiwi invention! HAHA!
     
  11. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    Yo Ollie, well you've just made my day, many thanks for your gracious remarks. :–)

    I'd be really interested in seeing a pic and a schematic of the system. Do you use an electric or an air operated diaphragm pump?
     
  12. OLLIE1

    OLLIE1 Member

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    You're welcome Richard,
    As for the set up of this system i can email you some pics, as i cant figure out how to post a picture!
    The pump is a submersible type (american made "Little Giant") it has a float switch built into it and
    the pump is single phase so you can plug it into the wall or hard wire it to the machine,
    there is a bit of messin around to set up the gravity return for all units, its basic and easy though, and im more
    than happy to email you pics and info on it, trust me...you will not look back! in fact... i'll try to figure out
    uploading it to you tube for ya, my apprentice is a youtube hotshot (he reckons) I'll keep you posted,

    or if your real keen you can email me on...dean@jeffoliverprint.co.nz and i'll email some pics.
     
  13. Meny

    Meny Senior Member

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    Richard

    Original Komori in Japan use this kind of system like in the B1 presses.
    Komori Europe tend to use gravity + suction and yes this could give some problems from time 2 time.

    using gravity only can help with foaming and be a pain in other ways

    Best regards

    Meny
     
  14. rolandman

    rolandman Senior Member

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    that system has been standad on the 700;s since the mid 90s
     
  15. OLLIE1

    OLLIE1 Member

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    Wow, Did'nt know Roland had that sussed!
    Allthough i dissagree with Meny, i have not had a "pain" in this set up ever....not once.
    Also worth mentioning is that you don't get rubbish and sediment in any lines like you
    can do with a standard venturi return.
    P.S, sorry for not emailing pics requested by a of a couple of peaple, i promise to do that
    in the next week!
     
  16. jetscreamer

    jetscreamer Senior Member

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    ollie1 we call your system a dump tank here in australia. I used this system on my last lithrone with a baldwin cooler, for me a auotmatic bilge pump from a yacht did the trick for me.
     

  17. dannyboy

    dannyboy Member

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    Royse came out with a system in the late eighties that used a small tub with all of the floats and hoses. We had foaming issues back then and this was their answer to the problem. I think we still have them in a box put up. The small tubs were placed on the floor next to the alco miser, reroute some hoses and foam be gone.