Komori Lithrone 40 Hickeys

Hi Guys

Work in prepress but trying to help out the press guys as they've been getting problems with hickeys and spots on our Komori Lithrone 40 B1 (2001) (Chrome Rollers) since we got it about a year ago. They've had the rollers out a few times to clean albeit probably not as often as we should have but still seem to be getting excessive spots on large solid areas. Anybody got any tips for them?

 

Try this link...it covers most of the issues..

Hickeys

 

thanks mate

 

Its usually down to bad housekeeping and using cheap rollers/paper/ink.

 

You will never, ever, ever stop getting hickies with komorimatics. The only answer is to have the press fitted with deltas. I'm running komorimatics right now and the last press I ran had deltas. My only success with minimizing the hickies is to clean back cylinders to perfection. If I have solids anywhere near the edge of the sheet, clean bearers on both plate and blanket cylinders between every run and replace your rollers before they start to pit. Hope that helps.

 

???
2 years running on Lithrone 626, Komorimatic and no Delta effect ..our hickey issues are negligible.

Meticulous housekeeping, good clean rubber, decent inks, decent stock all contribute to a hickey-free run.

I also think that the auto roller wash is a big plus - preventing overdosing of solvents particularly over the edges of the inkers.

We've had 3 Komori pressses and this one, with our combination of materials/consumables, doesn't exhibit hickies other than an occasional speck.

On the cleanliness of cylinder bearers don't you have oilsoaked pads running on impression and plate bearers? This should keep the bearer surface shiny and clean as well as preventing any ink buildup.

I don't deny Delta helps but unless the basics are addressed hickies will always be a problem.

 

Thanks for all the tips.

The guys in the pressroom were pretty interested in looking into the Delta System as they've never came across it before. Does anyone have any idea of cost (for B1) and if there is anyone in the UK that gets involved in the sale, install etc. also if there are any negative effects of running it?

Also we were thinking about getting the press dry ice blasted as its just impossible to clean some of the hard to reach places, anyone ever had this done to their press before?

 

Not sure if they're still around do a search for Dahlgren - they do/did a Delta retro-fit...check out their convertible dampener/coater too.

Dry ice cleaning - they produce very good clean downs but you need to be aware that it can make rubber oil seals brittle as well as blasting out the grease from bearings. Try DDJ Graphics in Wakefield they do refurbs and offer this service.

 

try looking for dahlgren as EPIC if you cant find them

 

Komorimatics

very familiar with ice-cleaning. We had a Kryo machine at my last shop. Bottom line is that komorimatics are hickey prone. Most come from the paper and using a light tack ink can minimize but for every pro there's a con. LT inks print a plugged up screen and cause dot gain. Perfect paper, perfect inks just don't happen in the printing world. Maybe at a trade show but not in any commercial shop I've worked at. I will say this, without solids involved the komorimatic is the best water system I've ever used. You can balance to perfection, even if chemistry is old or not even mixed perfectly. I love the system for controlling emulsification and cold start ups. I am a Komori man through and through but deltas or semi-deltas are a must in my opinion. Last six color I ran had the semi-deltas with the clutch system and they worked beautifully and still weren't integrated. Great water system, aside from the chrome roller pin shearing.

 

RichardK, you say that hickies are an unusual thing with your komorimatics, other than a little spec. Make's me ask myself, do you work for Komori? Dude, get real, I've been running them since I was knee-high to a grasshopper and what you said is completely untrue. What printshop invests in the"perfect" paper and the"perfect" inks for normal, everyday commercial printing? None, that I know of!! Bottom line, great water system for balance and control, and horrible for hickies. I've started with brand new rollers, perfectly set and the first solid given to me starts the hickey picken' race. Run up front, pull a sheet,make adjustments and haul a** back to the solid unit and drag that rubber tipped hickey picker till your hands cramp. Come on, be real!! The system has been a battle with hickies since it was manufactured. Like I said before, great and I mean GREAT water system for balance and control but horrible for heavy coverage and solids. It's a fact in my opinion. If you know a way to avoid these problems, enlighten me. I don't want to hear things like running a light key and a larger stroke. Those are no-brainers, give me some real insight if you really have control of this problem.

 

Look, if you're going to quote me at least quote what I actually said not what you 'think' I said. 'Decent' is the word I used and by that (sigh...do I really have to explain this?) I mean materials of a guaranteed quality standard not some other printer's rejected stock bought on the cheap...and no Pacific rim substandard cr•pola either.

So..'dude'..if we're talking knee high to grasshopper, as a printer I've run presses since 1971 from Waite & Savile, Crabtree Vickers, Nebiolo Invicta 44, a fistful of Rolands, a couple of Heidi's, add in a bronzing machine as well as some dodgy Dominants, and then lo and behold my first Komori Lithrone 426 (I reckon it was the first in the UK manufactured very early 80's), oh and then one of the first Lithrone 440s, oh and then the first Lithrone 5 col and coater (ok that one was a dog).

But my point is that all those presses came with technical baggage - the Komori was, without a shadow of a doubt, the one that printed the best, the fastest and gave the least issues printwise or maintenancewise.

Do I work for Komori...well I did years ago (1989-91) but since then I started my own company and like the all salesmen who believe in their product I eventaully put my money where my mouth was.

So I bought my first Lithrone 426 about 9 years ago. Now we're up to a 626 EMP and I have to say it's the most versatile, productive press I've ever owned/run.

Do Komorimatics generate hickeys? Clearly it's your experience but it isn't mine.

If I were you I'd look to my materials and housekeeping before pinning the blame on the damp system - you may as well blame the PQC for colour variation.

 

Thanks for talking the time to share your thoughts guys, this gives us quite a few things to look into. I'll let you know how we get on. cheers

 

Not trying to start animosity with you Richard. Having 600 plus employees is something to be proud of "dude." And you just answered my biggest question. You are in charge of the paper purchasing, ink purchasing and the housekeeping. Unfortunately, down here in the Southern U.S., I've yet to come across a boss who cares that much. Hat's off to you and your interest in the actual printing performed on your presses. I could probably learn a lot from you about the komorimatic if given the chance to work at your shop. I'm not knocking the system whatsoever but I've only had bosses that wanted to turn water into wine. They spend the absolute least amount of money on the ingredients involved in getting the ink on the paper. And, they only like to perform maintenance when the press will not run. I have mastered the art of maintaining a press in between make-readies, sad but true. I would love to witness your combination of learning experiences first hand. I believe what you are telling me but just hard to picture. Cheers!

 

Loup, no offense taken nor intended, I suppose I'm still passionate about print even after all these years...so if I came across a tad abrasive let's just call it transatlantically tangled terms of reference life is too short.

600 employees though? Is that you, coz it ain't me?
We have a staff of 9.

Oh, I see where you got that now... but 626 EMP is our Lithrone spec code ie 6 col, 26 inch, EM European Machine, P Perfector

The water into wine thing is common in employers, the constant erosion of margins is the main culprit, due in no small part to clients who insist on perfection for the least amount of spend.

But there's an immutable law that states you can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh*t...buying third rate materials leads to more downtime, more spoilage and a poorer end product.

We buy guaranteed quality inks/paper and consumables as we believe it's false economy to do otherwise.

Still laughing 'bout the 600 employees!

 

That's funny,must have read it completely wrong. Now, I don't even have a clue who you are. I'm guessing a pressman? Am I wrong?

 

Yes and no...

Short version...

Pressman from '71 to '87

Head of Komori (Spanish distributor) press sales '87 to '91

'Hands on' business owner from then to now.

 

Lots of years behind you and I respect that. I'm only 33, just turned actually but been on a Komori or a few other presses since the age of 17. I've Gracol certified a press and take my printing extremely seriously, just ask my helpers.L.O.L.

 

Okey! About Hickeys in Komori 40. I´ve been printing on presses from 10 to 78 inches and I have never seen so much hickeys in my life as I have since I started printing on Komori 40. There is not only maintenance - there is also mechanical differences that have influences on the amount of hickeys generated in yor press and I can tell you there is differences between Komori and other presses ve been on . But to convice Richard that something could be better in any other press than Komori - that day we can teach the talibans there is a better way than suecide bombing.

 

I think that last comment is a bit unfair. I'm sure he realises that all presses have good and bad points but in the end it comes down to personal preference. for example most German presses have got a reputation of bad electronics wheras japs dont. but mechanically German presses are buitl like tanks, but if youve been runnign komori all your life (not literally) your probably gonna prefer it, me, ive been running rolands mostly, and we know what the perception of those seems to be on this forum but i prefer them, ahtough i know they have good aswell as bad points