How do you deal with customers expecting you to match prices with some internet gang-printer? Is your profitability also being reduced by all these internet printers now?

On the positive side, as a small printer you can outsource the items you're not equipped to print and deliver a finished product to your customers that looks more professional than ever. Unfortunate reality is that in a small town there may never be enough volume to get some of the equpment you'd really like to have, so at least now with the Internet and pretty good accuracty to your digital files you can outsource the specialty items you can't afford to equip yourself to print and get the finished items back in just a few days.

The problem I have is that more now than ever, customers shop based on lowest price rather than reasonable price for the quality they really want.

As far as the ease of outsourcing now, the drawback is it means you are putting your reputation on the line based on someone else's work far away that you have little control over. If the job doesn't come back on time or to your spec, who does the customer blame? Plus not having the equipment, you lose the ability to be creative with the actual process.

if you check, the internet printers are well price for, stationary, which we dont make any money out of any way. but are incredibley expenisve with Leaflets, books ETC. for example. their is a net printer who works mainland UK. he charges for 50K full col double sided A4 leaflets £1350 GBP. I charge for 100K of the same £1250 GBP. so my 100K is cheaper than his 50K. and we do all artwork and finishing free. they charge extra for both. so to be honest i think the net printers only really affect the very small printers who only have alot of stationary and NCR work - that work to me is a burden because i dont make enough money on it.

well ob1 just because you can charge 1250gbp for 100k doesn't mean you should. Depends on your overheads. Maybe this other guy works from industrial premises with the latest kit and pays a decent set of wages - whereas you might be working on your own out of a garage - do the maths.

What about future investment in capital equipment - if you don't build in a decent margin how are you ever gonna get that 10 colour press with ctp et al?

'Cheap' is killing the trade - you said yourself - 'you don't make enough out of stationery and NCR' - why do you think that is?

HI Richard, i hear what your saying, and i agree with most of it, but if i am located in a huge city (which i am) thier is going to be alot of printers, hence more compitition and so i and all others have to adjust their prices accordingly and also not to kill themselves. but if i am in a smaller town were i am the only print or one of a few printers, we all can charge more than what we would in a bid town. my margin is decent or else i would not bother. i work from a 1000 sqm building. oh, i already have a ctp, just got to start trying for the 10 col now what presses do you have? if you dont mind me asking

Komori 626 (6 colour with perfector & auto plate loading plus washups).
Our CTP is AGFA Palladio 30. Now if we were printing 100k on 130g 4/4 we would be around 1660.00gbp. That's with artwork supplied. Our premises are only 2500sq ft. which we own outright - we have 8 staff all fully qualified professionals.

I can't see how you can make a decent margin on that example - (1250.00 for 100k) - even if you had a cheap web press. How much do you pay just for the paper?

HI Richard

Just out of interest how old is your Komori? do you have any truble with the perfecting unit, as i hear that the japs do not make very good short perfectors.

Your right, i do not make ahuge return on 100K which is why i tend to try and stay away form doing and offer insentives if they order 50K or less, which is a deposit and a one month term to pay in installments. and i will tell you why i do it for that price, because their is a printer local to me who does it for 1200, and if i do it for 1500 i will lose all of the customers work including the work that does make me a good margin. our ctp is an B1 Scitex lotem with Kodak proccesser. and i do actually also have a web press. im lso looking for other presses, if you have naything or know of anything?

Komori is a 2001 - freshly installed. We perfect every week - the perfect changeover takes 3 minutes and is completely automated, 1 button does the job. Our Last Lithrone had over 150mil impression on the clock it was a straight 4 and on its last working day still churned out work at 13k/ph!

I do get very protective about pricing - sure competition is good, but you still have to make a decent return otherwise you may as well put your money in a building society. Also whatever happened to not selling your expertise cheap? I hear what you say about your local competitor, we get the same thing here in Derby. Stupid prices to try and win work - well I tell you what, we would rather let the press stand than do a job for a pittance.

It's about time the rest of the industry saw the light too.

i agree with what you say, but their is always going to be a small printer, working from a garage like you said, who is willing to work for small profit, and in this industry you have to adjust your own prices to suit or else you will end up with nothing. look how big graphoprint was, and he ended up going skint. but hopefully this time next year our industry in uk will be rising up as close as it was before.

if you dont mind me asking, how old was your onld komori, and also if you dont mind me asking how much did you get for it. oh, and i am hoping you can help me, i am looking for another B1 press, you dont happen to know any printers selling one. sorry to bother you about it