Inkjet metal CTP

Discussion in 'Platemaking' started by Chris from Printshop, Feb 22, 2011.

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  1. Chris from Printshop

    Chris from Printshop Senior Member

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    Hi, anyone using one of these inkjet metal CTP systems on here? I stumbled across something where plates were 'imaged on a standard (17-inch) Epson inkjet printer which was controlled by a software RIP to produce halftoning and separations etc.

    Once 'imaged' (ie printed upon), you can then expose the plate (standard metal posi plates) under your vacuum frame, and develop them as per usual.

    I'm keen to know if anyone has any knowledge of these systems and just how good they are. What sort of screening capabilities have they got and what about solids and dimensional accuracy?

    It seems like such a simple idea and makes use of some very obvious principles but i fear the results might be comparable to the plates you can make on a laser printer ... ie fine for linework but useless for tints/halftones or any kind of screening.
     
  2. plotter

    plotter Senior Member

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    if you have a postscript laser the halftones / tints are fine, as long as you use the correct lpi and the correct media
     
  3. FSA

    FSA Senior Member

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    One of the smaller shops that I work in, put a PlateWrite 2000 in which is an inkjet system, that has a oven of its own. Rated at 50 k the plates are holding over a 100 k so far, it uses FM screeming which is wounderful. If you miss some image you can reimage the plate before it's baked not after. The big problem is if you get a air bubble in the line, and the cost of the fluid. The plates cost the same as the subtractive plates. The plates print really good, they are used on a Ryobi 3302 H. Test , test , and test again, we did for a year before a choose was made so it would fit the shop, without major isssues.
     
  4. Chris from Printshop

    Chris from Printshop Senior Member

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    I don't really know much about FM screening. I've seen the system in question but I don't think it's capable of everything. I'm yet to be convinced.

    As for laser film and postscript printer, I use a Xante Filmaker 3 with Myriad Film and the best reliable screen I can get is 120lpi and that's after adjusting the densities, calibrating the tonal curves and all sorts. It's fine for line work but it just can't produce acceptable halftones. There's no way it can either; the image is printed on to film which leaves the dot proud of the surface. This results in uncontrolable amounts of dot gain and flare. At leat if you image the plate directly it's 1st generation copy rather than poor quality contact copy.
     
  5. discountprintingservice

    discountprintingservice Senior Member

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    Do it yourself ctp system

    I believe I am familiar with the manufacturer of the metal posi plates. I came up with that idea myself about four years ago. It dated back to a company I bought from in the 90's called Graphic Science Corporation. They sold laser film & positive acting metal plates (& also sold laser polyester plates), I think they pioneered this technology as they were doing it before anyone else I know of even Xante as I recall (Xante & Hurst became the big players in laser polyester plates within a few years & GSC went out of business.).

    Anyway the idea was to print film positives from laser printer & burn positive plates. I had some of these plates I bought back in the mid 90s for a multi 1250 and I kept them all these years thinking I might need them. Well I started pursuing a technology used by screen printers of making film on an inkjet printer so I could use it to burn metal plates and one day it hit me to eliminate the film and image directly on the plate. So I pulled out these old plates and started imaging a positive image directly on these plates using just black ink in my Epson 7600. Then I exposed it under my NuArc 26-1K plate burner & developed it. IT WORKED!

    Basically you need an Epson inkjet printer, inkjet RIP software (I recommend looking at Wasatch, iProofsystems, and Accurip) some positive acting metal plates and a plate burner. You could do it with the standard US subtractive plates but you would have to put a lot of ink down on the plate, that is why the positive method it better. You will need to do tests to find the right amount of inkjet ink to put down on the plate (controllable in the rip software) as well as correct exposures. You can inkjet the image using black, or yellow or magenta or combinations of them (yellow inkjet ink is a good UV blocker) it is all controlled in the rip.

    It takes a very small amount of ink on the plate to do this, to much on these metal plates and the ink piles up and runs or doesn't dry quick enough. On my rip I have a control for each ink channel in my Epson printer. Turn off all of them except photo black. It is defalted to 1.0 which is 100% ink. Change this numberto about 0.10 and start there. If the ink dries to slow or runs go even lower, if the UV light exposes through the ink increase the ink or cut back on your UV. With a little testing you will find the right exposure and inkjet / rip settings.

    Also you might try using yellow and black at 0.05 each. With the Epson 7600 and the right rip i can achieve plates up to 150lpi, or even better using FM Stochastic screening I get plates that look more like 175 to 200 lpi with incredible detail.

    Also these RIPs I mentioned all have linearization tools to create your own curves which is something else you will need to test using a densitometer to achieve high quality plates with this technology.

    THIS CONCEPT DOES WORK AND YOU CAN DO IT FOR A FRACTION OF WHAT A NEW CTP SYSTEM COSTS AND HAVE HIGH QUALITY METAL PLATES!
    :D
     
  6. discountprintingservice

    discountprintingservice Senior Member

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    Do it yourself computer to plate system

    A couple of more things I forgot to mention:

    Positive plates are not very common in the US but Graphic Arts Supply does sell them (http://www.graphicartssupply.com). If you buy these make sure to get the developer as subtractive plate developer won't work. They do sell a start up test kit if you just want to experiment.

    The benefit to these plates is that the run length is generally longer than subtractive plates. Once exposed and developed the image area of the plate is still light sensitive so store them in a light safe box or envelope until you put them on the press.

    The quality you can achieve with this is much higher quality than any laser printer plate, and in my opinion better than inkjet polyester.

    Basically if you already own a high end Epson and a plate burner all you need to buy is the rip software, plates & developer which is a very small investment (about $795 to $1695 depending on the rip). If you need the printer the Epson's run about $2995 to $3995 depending on your size needs, and you probably still have a plate burner sitting in a corner not being used or you can pick up a used one dirt cheap.

    Someone also told be to try Sawgrass sublimation ink for this as their ink is much more dense than the standard Epson.

    The only drawback I have found is the Epson is a little slow at maximum resolution of 2880x1440 dpi.

    You can use the Epson to print proofs and plates. And the Epson's use an optical registration system so plate to plate registration is excellent (it reads or finds the edge of the plate before it starts imaging on it)...

    Give it a try and see for yourself then share your results with us...
     
  7. plotter

    plotter Senior Member

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    lets be honest, if the job is that critical then use an imagesetter for films, but for 98% of what we do a good postscript laser and the correct media does the job very well. i did say good, personally i think xantes are over rated and over priced.
     
  8. OkiTech

    OkiTech Senior Member

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    Hi, wery interesting article, got me to think of getting a plate burner and "starter kit" to experiment and add it to my collection of ways to make plates... What I have so far... Well as a engine I bought a JetPlate 4800 which gave me a print engine, Harlequin rip and processor. We're know that JetPlate is gone but...
    VIM Technologies & Epson itself came up with plates that can be imaged with K3 Ultrachrome ink, baked with 130C and thats it - so you buy an empty plate ( no emulsion ) print it, put in curing unit (VIM sells it separatelly) The JetPlate processor has 3 heating elements in my case and you have a 20K print metal plate. Also company called Glunz & Jensen made their own unit also based on Epson 4880 printer called PlateWriter 2000 so I bought their plates, marking fluid and Finisher liquid. Principal is the same as Epson CTP but, this machine prints with "liquid dot" chemical on empty plate, I would imagine it is ink-jetable emulsion, than it has to be baked under 180C and gummed with finisher, plate run - 50k+.
    But I like the idea of positive plates - I think one of these days, I should try it.
     
  9. whfranz

    whfranz New Member

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    Mr. can i have your e-mail, i own anything to try that. my mail is comercial@whfranz.com. please writeme back. tnks

    Luis Lagos
     
  10. Chris from Printshop

    Chris from Printshop Senior Member

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    Yep. Totally agree. Make plates on a standard SRA3 laser now and the results are so much better. Xante? Schmante!
     
  11. Chris from Printshop

    Chris from Printshop Senior Member

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    How does this sound then? ... I produced some artwork in Quark (an A5 4c/4c flyer). Imposed it 4up and made a composite CMYK PDF of it with crops, bleeds and colour bars.

    Then, I opened the PDF in Photoshop at 1200dpi, still CMYK and converted it to multichannel. Then I split the channels and converted each one to a bitmap using the 'diffusion dither' option. Once this was done I then flipped each canvas horizontally (to make a mirror-image) and printed them out on an SRA3 laser printer, to transparent film.

    I ran the job in 4 passes on my GTO and it worked. I have since done the same but converted the images to bitmaps using the 'halftone screen' option instead. This also works.

    Interesting experiment and both jobs have gone out the door to happy customers. I also had film professionally made for me on one of these jobs, as a comparison and frankly, the difference on the finished job hardly noticeable.
     
  12. Even2011

    Even2011 Member

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    Thanks for information.
     
  13. elvin_011

    elvin_011 New Member

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    hi all,

    I am interested in this discussion, and have tried some inks to print plates with inkjets printer and burn it (without vacuum) but the problem is the inks cannot be attached well to the plate. and the density is too light so the result is not good.
    can you suggest me what kind or brand of ink can be use?
     
  14. marker

    marker Member

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    i have been using those positives since the old days when they first came out. i have the HP5000 for laser plates, and 120LPI is about max too. i have used positive metal for years even made them for my KORD. and yes, graphic art supply has them still. i tried the direct to inkjet on my HP 8750 to print right on that positive plate and it just ran all over. i think you need the epson like you said. i am sending out for film again for 4 color negs. i quit doing in house process because online was so cheap. but now i get quotes for higher runs, 25,000 so i can do it here cheaper. i don`t mind running the press, that`s why i am a printer. i would like to try those epson direct to inkjet plates but can`t find a supplier so far that can send me a sample pack. i will call epson on monday to see what i can get.
     
  15. basslinegraphics

    basslinegraphics Member

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    Taking the dive

    I have just sent out for the Posi plates, and I am going to shell out for a Wasatch RIP. I like how you can upgrade to a variable data RIP (something I have been eying as well).
    I have been running polyester Hurst plates on a HP5000. My problems are with plate wear (as the toner cartridge wears out big solids start falling out during the run) and plate stretching on vertical registration. I have an ABDick 9810 with a T-51 and would like to do some short-run process work. It seems as if I am reaching the end of the spectrum for quality printing with this setup and it's time to invest a bit.
    My goal is to get a working aluminum plate workflow. I bought an Epson 2200 last year to output film, but have not been able to locate a set of registration pin bars so the project stalled. This is a side gig for me so any investment is slow and steady. Will report on any progress or problems.
    MZ
     

  16. basslinegraphics

    basslinegraphics Member

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    Maybe try adjusting the ink densities and UV spectrum on your burner? I would try some of the suggestions made earlier like yellow/magenta/black mix and bringing down the exposure of your burner
     
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