Heidleberg Prosetter74 making hair lines in halftones and solids

Discussion in 'Platemaking' started by rbruce63, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    The Heidelberg dealer in Costa Rica has not been able to pinpoint the culprits of our Heidelberg Prosetter 74 making hair lines in both halftones and solids. These hairlines appear in different parts of the plate pointing to a mechanical failure, as they repeat. However, specially in the halftone screens and the solids.

    The Heidelberg dealer bas pointed to three parts but cannot provide them unless we pre-pay for these parts. There is no return policy for such parts:

    P-Image Forming Card P/N PP057.38229 or 00.785.0922
    P-P3C2 (discarded as they brought one in and it didn't solve the issue of the hairlines)
    Laser Diode 30mW P/N PR.599.8190/02

    We performed ourselves a cleaning of the mirror assembly, lubricated the never-ending screw, etc. The hairlines have diminished in size, however, they keep appearing.

    The power supply was replaced on January as they don't last over 24 months (despite the fact that we have installed a bank of capacitors at the electricity entry point, a voltage regulator and the UPS with voltage regulator)


    We would like to keep the Prosetter 74 and go to Saphira Violet Chem-Free process less plates if and when they are available in Costa Rica or even Fuji's if the 30 mW laser can expose them. So far the LAP-V plates are still available and will be available for the next year!

    There are used parts in the market now at a fraction of the cost of "new" Heidelberg parts.

    Can you help pinpoint to what is causing the hairlines? Have you encountered hairlines occurring every few millimeters in parts of the plate specially on halftones and solids?

    Regards,

    Robert H. Bruce
    San José, Costa Rica
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  2. headwebrat

    headwebrat Member

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    we had a similar problem with our prosetter and the tech had us change out the large filter on the left side on the bottom of the machine and that cured it for us. we now replace all the filters according to their schedule and it hasnt skipped a beat since. good luck. we also cleaned it out and emptied out all the wayward plate punches.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  3. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    Thanks for the input. We haven't been very ornate in replacing the filters…the Heidelberg technician has asked me to buy the P-Image card to test $1,500. He hasn't said anything about the filters which are about $2,000!

    What are you planning to do when Agfa discontinues LAP-V plates? Will you invest in the processor for the Azura Vi or will you change to the Agfa Aspira plates, both are low-chem process?
     
  4. headwebrat

    headwebrat Member

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    we changed over to a Fuji Javelin 8600-Z laser and FLH-Z Supreme processor with fuji lh-pj plates. moving forward.
     
  5. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    Indeed got to move forward! Thanks for your input. I just posted two pictures of the issues we have.
     
  6. headwebrat

    headwebrat Member

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    when we had this problem it was in the direction of the laser going round. not across the plate. it hard to tell if that is the direction if the marks your getting by the photo but they look similar.
     
  7. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    Yes @headwebrat the problem is around the plate as the laser engraves it! What was the culprit in your case only the filter? Was there damage on the mirror assembly? Did cleaning the mirror assembly solve the problem?

    It seems that the hairlines accompany the image. They do happen in the same place in the same plate size: The C, M, Y, K plates have the hairlines in the same place, therefore, the hairlines register on all plates.

    But when we change plate sizes, the hair lines changes position: If we put the GTOF 52 plate on top of the Speedmaster 72 plate using the punches to align the plates from entry to exit, the hairlines are in different places.

    Therefore, the hairlines follow the image being engraved on the plates.

    Another thing, the image on the Metashooter does not contain the hairlines!
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  8. headwebrat

    headwebrat Member

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    your case sounds more drastic than our scenario. cleaning out the plate bed and changing the filter fixed ours. it looks as though your laser is not tracking correctly as it burns the image. Im thinking that some tech would have seen your issue before on different prosetter. sorry I just work in the press room and went by the guidance of the tech we called on the phone.
     
  9. headwebrat

    headwebrat Member

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    your problem looks more extreme than our scenario. it looks like the laser isn't tracking as it burns the image or its going out. once the tech thought our laser was going out and said it was $16,000 to replace. i hope this isnt your case
     
  10. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    @Headwebrat: It is not a common problem as a technician in Mexico thought it was a software problem and did all the updates remotely without helping a bit.

    The local Heidelberg tech sent pictures to Germany and he came with the procedure to replace the P-Image, replace the P3C2 and also the laser, or a combination of the three but at a hefty out of pocket cost to us. And yesterday the Heidelberg tech said, get the P-Image first and we will work from there…So I believe it's going to be the way of the P-Image with the iFixit guys at $1,500 plus shipping, insurance, handling and import duties.

    There are no error codes either to report. The local tech has a flight to Germany 22 days from now and I will be showing him the plates for him to take to Germany, perhaps its better to wait until the germans see the plates and decide from there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  11. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    More Findings.

    The hairline marks are in the same direction of the rotation of the laser.

    They are perpendicular to the image on the AROUND side of the plate. If a plate is 52 X 72 the marks are perpendicular to the 72 cm base and parallel to the 52 side of the plate. They are separated by 7 cm each on both plates (24 X 52 and 52 X 72).

    The hairlines seem to follow the images being engraved on the plate. They occur always on the first "signatures" on a two signature plate and on a four up signature plate, they appear on the second set of signatures.

    The hairlines are always following the image and register on all the colors of a same size plate. However, if you align a 24 X 52 cm plate by the central punch to a 52 X 74 cm plate, then the hairlines occur in different areas of the plate.

    It seems more an electronic problem than a mechanical problem.

    The Heidelberg tech said to buy the P-Image card first, then the laser or the mirror and then the P3C2 card. It seems like an expensive route even with used parts, since the upgrade route with Azura Vi plates is not clear yet (at least in Costa Rica).
     

  12. rbruce63

    rbruce63 Member

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    ¡New findings! The damned machine is not producing the hairlines any more on 24 X 52 cm plate...