HP Indigo vs Konica Minolta Biz Hub Pro

What is the difference between Hp Indigo and Konica Minolta BizHub Pro C6500?
Both are made for Digital printing... Laser or Ink jet? Do they have same technology?

 

Very different issues at play as the Indigo uses liquid ink and the Konica dry toner.

The Konica Minolta C6500 is compared to canon and xerox color copiers / printers. The 13 x 19 paper size from all drawers and speed for machine price make the KM stand out to me vs. the current canon and xerox models. Also the fact that the main unit is part of a system that takes you to the top of the KM line so you can get the basic engine that is part of the big light production unit for a low entry level price, leading me to believe the basic construction is going to be quite well built.

The indigo is different than an inkjet in that it uses laser to control attraction to a photo imaging cylinder (PIP) from ink rollers (BIDs) which then transfers to a blanket cylinder with paper around an impression cylinder. But it's a more difficult machine to get your feet wet with than a KM with a higher price and 5538 lb weight vs. ~ 800 lbs for the KM. Interesting indigo possibilities though include 7 inks for custom ink colors. But you can get a new KM for the price of a well-used indigo or a few KMs for the price of one new indigo.

 

A new indigo is on-par pricewise with an iGen or NexPress. You can get an older-model indigo well used for the price of a new Konica Minolta and have better print quality, but will you be able to get a maintenance contract on the used indigo? HP is also increasing service costs on the older model indigos trying to get them out of the market. And if not, you will need to have a lot of experience to maintain them (more than even a toner based press IMO). It's tempting to get the used high-end machine that also sets you apart in a specialty niche from the copy shop down the street, but it's easier and probably more logical and profitable to get a low-end machine that you can afford new with full service if you want to make money from the machine running day in and day out.

 

I am servicing many C6500 machines and I can tell you one thing: it's a great machine. End of story.

 

A lot less training necessary for users / printers to get good results out of a 6500 (still need a good tech to back you up and do good PM) but much less 24/7 attention needed than an indigo which requires a skilled operator - think for an indigo users do a 1 week printing course and a 1 week maintenance course to be able to run it. The indigo is more difficult and costly to operate, but you get finish quality and additional ink colors if you want to make a niche for yourself that is a bit different.

 

c6500

and how much would it cost?

 

Hi Jeff,

I am conducting research into what technologies are best for high quality photo book printing. I have good knowledge of photographic printing but looking for some expert knowledge on print on demand technologies. I have come across the HP Indigo 7500 and 5500 which have great reviews but I am looking for some unbias opinions. I wondered if you could recommend any other technologies similar to them that can rival in terms of quality..? Any comments gratefully appreciated

David

 

Noticeably less than an indigo. Depending on options (feeder, finishing, RIP) $50,000 to $75,000

 

Compare the indigo to imagepress and igen dry toner solutions in terms of initial cost, quality, price per print, skill level and cost of environment/staff to operate at maximum quality.

The KM Bizhub approach would be a number of these smaller cheaper units instead of one big machine. I'm dubious of the finish quality of the KM though for specifically photo books since it doesn't do gloss.

 

I hear the Indigo 3000 and beyond offer true offset quality despite 812 dpi resolution, and can do up to 230 lpi screens. I'm interested in actual per page cost analyses in consumables, technician labor, and repair expenses, if anyone has any info.

Also, I'm finding used machines have scary impression counts by dry toner standards (16-68 million). Do they last indefinitely like presses, or do they eventually give up the ghost at some point?

David

 

RyanS2 is right in every sense, its tempting to buy a used indigo, but later without their support services u will get into problem sooner, bettr to buy a new KM instead, actually am planning to buy one for our printing shop.

steve

 

I service and sell the KM production machines - I can tell you that the C6500 is an excellent product - the original engine was the Konica 8050 (also sold as the Minolta CF5001 and Ikon CPP8050) - they blew the competition out of the water when they first sold the machine (2003) - they have ever since built up and improved on that same engine - Bizhub Pro C500, Bizhub Pro C5500 & C6500, Bizhub Pro C65HC (High Chroma) - which is amazing, Bizhub Pro C5501/C6501 - and now the C7000 which just came out. They all do fine with glossy IMO, you just want to run consitently the same paper sizes through because changing sizes will leave marks on the heat roller and will show on the output - either run all 12x18 or 11x17 and you'll be fine.

By the way, I can sell a C6500 completely PMed and refurbished for around $20,000.00 - the ideal setup is for someone to buy the machine and have it put under contract with Konica Minolta for service and supplies.

 

Guys
I'm a tech and have a customer I service they were running 200k-300k images a month with a mix of papers on our C6500. A customer of theirs said to this customer that if they purchased a Indigo they could give them 200-400 images a month in work. So what do you think they did they bought a used Indigo 230k to buy and relocate to their location. They spent 30k in training and recieved no 200-300 images they recieved 20k in one month which they ran on my C6500. I have seen it run photo quality but a very high cost per page. The one time they had too run it they couldn't the humidity was not in a range it jammed and tore up blanket and this machine needs a very controlled enviorment. I all fairness how do you compare a 40k machine to a 300k machine. The C6500 dollar for dollar you could not buy a better machine. If it doesn't put out the color quality to your standings i would be shocked but i have had customers in print for pay that have said they recieve complaints about half tones be they always say these same customers are never happy some customers just like to complain. If you want to amke money buy one get realistic customers and you wont have a problem. I take care of 23 c6500and 6501's great machine.

 

Hi,
Currently considering buying printing business. Can anyone tell us difference between B6500 & C6500 models.
B6500 currently being valued at AUD $65 000 (AUD is about the same as USD) Can anyone say if this is a realistic price?

 

I've never heard of the B6500 - The full name of the machine is Bizhub Pro C6500 - sometimes people will abbreviate it as BH C6500 - nowadays, Konica Minolta pretty much calls all their copiers/printers "Bizhubs" which really doesn't mean a thing. The designation "Pro" only applies to their high volume production lines. The letter "C" before the numeral just designates the machine as being a color machine. Now there are also "P" models such as C6500P which only means that the machine is a printer only, in other words, there will not be a copy/scanning glass or a document feeder - the machine will be a bit cheaper without those optics but cannot be used as either a copier or scanner (just as a printer). There is also a C65HC - the HC stands for High Chroma - and from what I hear, the machine is a bit more expensive, but the quality is unreal, supposedly one cannot tell the difference between its output and that of a printing press, even with a loupe (not tell tale dots). Unfortunately, I have yet to see or hear of a HC model to hit the aftermarket.

 

langelot,

how would you compare the 6500 to say a xerox docucolor 6060? i currently am running 2 7655's (tuned down 240) but have heard good things about the 6500's. i also have a dc6060 in my other shop, so naturally i was thinking to sell off the two 7655'sand buy 1 6060 for better registration and production. what do you think 6060 vs 6500? consumables, service (customer based), registration F to B (BIG DEAL) and over capacity and color. thanks, kristian.

 

I am looking to setup a digital printing house to complement my already existing advertising business and to make use of the market gap here in my country (malawi). I have been comparing the HP indigo series and the Konica bizhub presses. It looks to me that the bizhub is a good bet for a small start up like what i want to do as compared to the indigo series which looks more for a larger project.
Please Share your thoughts on this

 

Some stuff we have noticed

The Indigo will give the best print quality and is far more robust for longer runs.
The konica is cheaper to buy and run
any one who can use a photocopier can be up and running on a konica in less then a couple of hours
Maintenance on the konica is pretty much non existent, just fill with paper and calibrate at least once a day and you're done.
Used konicas are very cheap to buy
You will have a problem getting a service contract on an older model Indigo
If you are thinking of doing photo books on any digital press you will be doing them 1-up, this limits the binding used and your sheets will fall apart as soon as you touch them, you have to use signatures.
68m on a toner machine? you will get through 10 konicas doing that sort of run.
If you deal with agencies they will prefer that you have the indigo - snobbery rules at agencies.

 

I fear the indigo does not have an indefinite life span. It would suffer the same fate as any digital machine.
Although the print quality from its pip and ink system is far superior than dry toner.

I wish i had one running next to my Canon Imagepress ... or a Kodak NexPress..

 

i honestly dont know how anyone can compare a Di press with a dry toner suped up photocopier..
these are 2 very different machines and there is no comparison. If you can afford the di get one, if you cant then get a dry toner, if you can afford them both, dont bother just go on holiday and forget about it ;-)