SM 102 Perfector Slipping issues

Discussion in 'Heidelberg Printing Presses' started by Griznarf, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Griznarf

    Griznarf Senior Member

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    Has anyone experienced sheets slipping in the perfector? No matter what has been done to the perfector, the sheets still continue to slip. Customer can only run about 8500 in perfecting any faster the sheets start to slip. Heidelberg has been in and adjusted the grippers. The cam followers have been changed. The pincer bar has been rebuilt and the sheets still slip. The press runs fine for a few days after adjustments have been done and then the sheets start to slip again??

    Any ideas
     
  2. NotAGooner

    NotAGooner Senior Member

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    Have you turned on the rear suction bars and that they are is stretching mode?
     
  3. Hters

    Hters Member

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    Heidelberg AG, South Africa
    It may also be the back edge sucker to gripper timing is out.( suckers holding on to sheet to long) It is adjustable.
     
  4. Griznarf

    Griznarf Senior Member

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    Thanks I will check them out and see.
     
  5. gotaf7

    gotaf7 Member

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    We added a second perfector pump to our SM102 10 color made a very noticeable differance. We had so much trouble with that machine we had techs in from all over Canada and USA also several factory visits. From what I have gathered talking to all these guys over beers is this is a very common problem.
    If your perfector pump's filters are getting oil contaminated 100% your turning valve on perfect cylinder is shot, we changed ours out and press was like new again for about 6 months filters started getting oil contaminated again that is when they suggested a 2nd pump worked decent could run the machine on most stock under 100lb at 11000iph without movement.
     
  6. Grant B

    Grant B Senior Member

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    I know the press you are referring to Griznarf-I work on it.

    I would love to get this problem rectified. This is what I can tell you about this specific press and the problem.

    The air suction goes on automatically when set to perfecting and the sucker rotation does work.
    We have tried shutting off any unused suckers and even tried placing small suckers(when space is provided) on the suckers. We have had different pumps, tried new filters and new gaskets, none of which has helped.
    I did ask Heidelberg about adding a second pump, the reply I got was that the suction would be to great and sheets would be pulled from the perfector drum. To me, this already appears to be the problem. When the sheet has turned over and is printed after the perfector the crop marks on the top side of the sheet are below the crops on the downside. The slipping occurs at all speeds and at high speeds it can be so great that travel monitors (in units after the perfector)trip the press off. NOTE: this press has an oblong perfector cylinder. I also worked on another older Heidelberg perfector which did have 2 perfector pumps, but it had a round perfector cylinder.
    Hters, I agree with your thought of the air holding on too long. Could you tell us how to adjust the air timing. I have been dealing with this problem for almost 6 years(out of sight, out of mind on the part of management)
     
  7. Griznarf

    Griznarf Senior Member

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    Hello Grant, it is Bill (aka Griznarf), you can email me at stricklyprsltd@look.ca
    And yes I do go to sleep and think of this stuff.
     
  8. Hters

    Hters Member

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    Grant/Bill, on the DS at the perfecting drum, there is an "air plate" with air connection
    attached to it (pipe from pump).If I am not mistaken, the air stop tap is also on that line. The air plate is stationary, and has slots to let air through to the drum. This has a vertical bolt sticking out of the plate, against this bolt is two horizontal
    bolts resting against the vertical one. By turning either one of these bolts inwards, and the other outwards, "timing" is moved to release earlier/later. It has been a while since I have done this, not sure about direction to turn either bolts...You can inch a sheet through the machine, adjust the plate when sheet is in transfer position, and determine direction to adjust for earlier release.

    Ters.

    ps. I hope this makes sense, my Afrikaans to English translation lets me down...
    Our 102/2 ZP was a '98 model?
     
  9. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Hi Griznarf
    I think you have on the Storage drum one Air leakage. you check the Rotary vale ,Air tube connect to the Rotary vale also on the suction bar there are one Plastic my that can be broken. to check i blow some smoke to the suction tube on the Storage drum fastest way to check.
    to adjust the Timing for the Suction bar, on the Rotary valve you have 1 6or 8mm steel bar connect to 1 to the adjustment plate
    Machine set to perfecting size 700mm suction on run paper turn Machine by Hand turn Machine to timing Pincer gripper-Storage drum now you must hear the the suction go off and the " Manometer reading " on the suction pump must go up.
    degree perfecter unit 1-2 =143.2" unit 2-3= 340.8" unit 3-4 =178.1" unit 4-5 = 15" +/- 0.3 degree to adjust open the 2 screw on the adjustment plate as far i remember " to Feeder later and deliver earlier " hope I can help you with that
     
  10. exheidmech

    exheidmech Senior Member

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    Not sure if you have this problem resolved or not, but here goes my take on your issue. Anytime I go on a perfector related call there is always a few quick checks I do that will tell alot. Check how much play the fixed gripper and spring loaded gripper have. There should be very slight play. You should be able to feel the play but barely be able to see it. If the fixed or spring loaded grippers have exessive play, this will change gripper opening/closing times and also reduce gripper pretention. This will absolutly cause "slipping". Also check that the 2 blow bars over the storage drum both have heavy streams of air coming out of them and both streams pointing straight down tword the 6 oclock position. This is almost always an issue on older machines due to the deterioration of hoses to these blow bars. Also, check to see that you have good suction on the tail suckers and make sure suckers that are not being used are turned off. Im not saying its not the turning valve, but it is rarely the case. Also, FYI the turning valve is located on the OS of the machine not the DS. What exactly did Heidelberg do when they were onsite? Simply rebuilding the gripper bar will do very little unless cam followers were also replaced, all needle bearings inside each gear segment were replaced, spring loaded grippers were replaced, fixed gripper height was reset, pretention was reset, gripper opening/closing times were reset and all excessive play was removed out of the pincer bar.
     

  11. Hters

    Hters Member

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    Exheidmech has valid concerns, please elaborate on what was done to the Pincer bar. Exhdmech, you are correct with the location of the valve....sorry, it is OS.

    Ters.
     
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