problem with wohlenberg MCS3-TV

Discussion in 'Cutters and Trimmers' started by NimeshSilva, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. NimeshSilva

    NimeshSilva Senior Member

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    Hi all,
    I'm EE tech to the printing industry. one of my clients have a Wohlenberg MCS3-TV 92 cutter (with system 86). we had to stop the cutter to repair a mechanical fault for several days. after about 3 days, when its turned on, the language has changed to french (originally was in english) and all the jobs were erased from the memory. the service data (machine sizes) are also got erased. So, I have checked the battery and the battery had fully drained out. the voltage was only around 0.9V. So, I have removed the old battery and replaced it with a new 3.6V battery. and after setting the service data and the language, the backgauge calibration and cutting is ok. but when I try to start a new program (pressing "P" key and then "memory" key), the system "beeps" and do nothing. it won't allow me to start a new program. but the display doesn't show any error. before replace the battery, the program worked perfectly with power on. after power off, the language changes back to french and programs getting erased.


    I've ran all the memory checks according to the service manual. and they all are ok.


    is there any special procedure to replace the memory battery? Is there any other setting to set after changing the battery in order to function the system correctly?

    any help is highly appreciated? I'm so helpless now.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. NimeshSilva

    NimeshSilva Senior Member

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    Hi,

    problem solved guys. I just figured out whats wrong there.

    Thank you
     
  3. printerpress

    printerpress New Member

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    So ???
    How did you solve it?

    I got some problems of my own with a mcs3 tv 132 cm machine.
    The knife stops just a little bit before it's totally back up. The I have to go to the knife exchance program, get it back up and restart the machine.

    Driving me nuts
     
  4. jimcutter

    jimcutter New Member

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    Cam switch timing is the first place to check. Was an adjustment made to the clutch/brake?
     
  5. GeorgeVujcic

    GeorgeVujcic New Member

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    Same problem with memory on Wohlenberg MCS2-TV

    Hi NimeshSilva,

    can you please share with us how you solved the problem. I have same problem with my Wohlenberg MCS2-TV cutter. We changed battery and since then every time we start the cutter all data from memory is lost and we have to retype it.

    Please help!

    Thank you
     
  6. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    (1) New Battery not correctly soldered. ( Check that there is voltage (3-4v) on the Ram, when power is off)
    (2) The circuitry that disables writing to the Ram, was damaged when you soldered in the new battery.
    typically the FET is blown. (Static from soldering Iron ??)
     
  7. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    You did not EXIT the Setup Page Correctly ( You proably just Pressed P ?)

    You need to go back into the Parameter setup page, and then FIRST hit the "M" key.
    The currently selected parameter's data will the Stop Flashing.
    Then you can hit the "P" key to exit the Setup Screen.

    ie when exiting setup, Press "M" first -- them "P"


    Common mistake -- it's not made clear in Manual that this is a CRITICAL step :)

    Geoff
     
  8. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    Wohlenberg Mcs2 ic U1 on PA print what type!

    Small question for wohlenberg MCS-2 de PA print,
    on this print is situated 3 ic U1, VR1 and VR2
    vr1 en vr2 are known cny17-2
    but like to know what type ic U1
    print number is 3115.40.8037.00 BS
    de PA print is located on the righ side of the machine holding the powersupply print and 2 prints with solid state relai (ic U1 is in between)

    type number from ic U1

    if somebody can post this and perhaps have service manual i will be
    helped very much.
     
  9. NimeshSilva

    NimeshSilva Senior Member

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    Post a photo please.. then I may be able to help.
    What's your problem by the way?. Why are you looking for this ic?
     
  10. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    U1, ( when fitted) is a 7407 ( Typically a SN7407N - TTL hex buffers/drivers feature high-voltage open-collector outputs )

    see http://www.cedmagic.com/tech-info/data/7407.pdf

    However, it is seldom used (if ever) .. it is associated with connector P10 on the PA Board.

    I have never seen this used, or have I ever seen any Schematics that show it .. at least not here in the USA.

    If you do not have the P10 connector fitted, and/or do not have any cables plugged into P10 (if it is fitted), then you DO NOT need this chip in the U1 socket.

    If you have any drawing that show this IC1 or P10 being used, I would be most grateful for a pdf copy.
    ie a copy of your 3115.40.8037.00 prints. The copy I have, that does not show IC1 is 3115.00.8031-05.
    Does show P10, going to a "POSI-Control" -- but never actually seen that, whatever it is !!

    Geoff
    Scope Systems
     
  11. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    Thank you for this reply Geof,

    It must be indeed the SN7407N,

    our machine is type 155 No3168-005 3115.00.8031-05 1...10+15

    The initial fault we faced was that the sattel only moved backwards.
    and did not respond to the front when use the switch.
    the led lights on interface did reactwhen use the switch but the sattel did not move to front.

    When pressing the relay the motor did move so i had to check more things in the machine.
    All the led from the interface print are renewed, all flatcable are renewed.

    The cables were so old they gave other inconsistant faults.

    Now i know the U1 type ic i can check the machine this afternoon.

    I will update you if the faults are disapeared.

    For the copy of our manual we only have wiring manual i can send you by mail to you tomorrow.


    Thanks for this help
     
  12. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    WiColor

    Thank you for the docummention offer.

    Please ship copy to

    Scope Systems
    6406 Mount Vista Rd
    Kingsville, MD 21087
    Tel: 410 592 8960

    As far as your initial problem is concerned -- Backgauge will not move forwards, only backwards -- but will move forwards if Contactors are manually operated..

    This is a Classic problem on the Wohlenberg Systems 85 cutter.

    Check the Foot Pedal Microswitch.
    When not operated, this should be lighting RED Led # L8, on IO Port 2
    When foot pedal is depressed, this light should turn OFF.

    If system "THINKS" the Foot pedal is being operated, (and therefore Clamp may be down), it will not allow the Backgauge to run in the forward direction, and risk crushing stack of paper between the Backgauge & the Clamp/knife.

    Also, as this Microswitch is Normally Closed, if the wire(s) come off it, that will indicated to the system that the foot pedal is being operated.

    Check for mechanical issues with the switch and its activation. It can get jammed in the operated condition if the activating mechanism has got damaged/bent.

    Other possible cause -- bad PK Board (side rack)
    Easiest way to help confirm this, is to SWAP the two PK over,
    If still same problem, then it's very unlikely to be a PK board issue.

    If you still cannot determine what is causing your problem, you can always call us at Scope Systems. (ideally from the machine,) and we should be able to help you diagnose the problem over the phone. (410 592 8960)

    Geoff
     
  13. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    So, here we are now in 2015 ...

    I assume by now you are back up and running ??

    Can you share what was the cause of your problem turned out to be ??

    Geoff
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  14. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    Hello Geoff,

    Thanks for the tip, the switch was indeed loose,
    repaired it and now going front and rear but (only slow from computer)
    and with contractors directly is goes fast!
    But the machine has some other issues, sometimes it starts slow.
    For the siemens contractors 100 90 80 and 70 they are sparking to much
    perhaps i need to change them.
    Last week i tried the machine but did nor start properly, as my colleage already
    changed some wires near the contractors.
    Today i started the machine and started properly, but sometimes
    the haubmotor does not start every time and the lights on the io boards work fine
    But with computer i cant do fast forward or backward. slow works fine in two ways.
    also its not ready for cutting so still some things to figure out.

    In mean time i will check several things and post detailed results and possible faults
    over here.

    Greetings Arthur
     
  15. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    Arthur

    If you get a copy of your Machine Wiring to me (Scan & email), I'll be in a much better position to help you, when you post your latest findings.

    Geoff
     
  16. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    I send you the manual by email,
     
  17. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    Update in machine status!

    Power supply print from PA back-plane, the print itself has been too hot at the 7805 5 volt supply,
    discovered the reed relays k1 v23100v4305b000 is faulty for 1 contact!
    so will change this to new then all 3 led's will power on!
    This could also explain the unstable start-up from the machine!

    Will be continued!
     
  18. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    Sounds like you are talking about the 3 Red LEDs on the PB board.

    The Bottom LED should normally be OFF -- when on, it indicated that there is a Power fail situation.

    Check all 3 fuses on this board.
     
  19. WiColor

    WiColor Member

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    Geoff,

    Its still a strange machine fault!

    i repaired the footswitch as you told me and now the saddle goes only in slow mode!(by front switch)
    Checked power supply all fuse are good and 2 led are on and lowest is off.

    If checked with solenoid, there it stops automaticly at the back gauge when fast mode is on but when
    going to the front it will not stop automaticly and bangs into the front.
    Today we are going to check all switches underneith the saddle, there must be some wrong there!

    Its it such strange fault looks if it is cheeting us every time!
    Perhaps some advice or things to check will be apreciated
     

  20. Scopesys

    Scopesys Member

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    You can monitor the FRONT Switch (Backgauge Joystick), on the Red inputs to the IO Port Boards.
    You can also Monitor the operation of the Front and Rear (4) Microswitches.

    If the RED(input) Leds are operating correctly, then you need to look at the GREEN (output) Leds, to see of you are getting the demand for FAST/SLOW being sent out to the PK Boards (Solid state relay Boards- on side of machine).
    Ultimatly, these solid state relays pull in the FAST or SLOW contactor, that puts AC onto the Backguage motor.

    One easy way to get a good idea of the PK boards are OK, is to SWAP them over, and see if the machine behaves in a different way. Swapping the PK boards, would move a potentially BAD solid state relay to another function.

    Also, physically look at the 4 IO Port Boards, in particular the INPUT Resistors, particularly the Flatter pair near the RED/GREEN. The original ones typically Crack and get unreliable due to heat over an extended time. If they have changed resistance significantly, this can cause false reading of the RED Inputs.

    (Note The IO ports are NOT interchangeable, as each one is different, with, at the least, a different hardwired, wire link, Address)

    Sound like you have almost got the last failure in your machine fixed !!

    Geoff
     
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