Polar 115 EMC brain failure!?

Discussion in 'Cutters and Trimmers' started by nadg63, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Hi, having heaps of problems with a Polar 115 EMC-MON guillotine!

    M/C No. 6032053

    Varying sizes whilst running a set programme, (lucky if two sets of cuts come out the same size even though it shows the correct size being met on the screen!?), it gets to a size, pauses, then 'jumps' off the mark, (this happens throughout the scale not at a particular point and is really annoying if running an 'ET' prog!) The machine was re-calibrated 10 days ago to match shown size to actual cut size but that has gone astray again, 297 x 210 can come out in any combination of 296/298 x 209/211 - seldomly 297 x 210. :mad:

    There are other issues but the above are a good starter ....

    In the last 4 years the machine has had the glass scale replaced, the reader and reader cable plus two boards, (though I'm not sure which!?), all trying to sort these issues that are most definitely getting worse.

    Short of scrapping/replacing it any suggestions?

    Thanks.
     
  2. simon yeung

    simon yeung Member

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    Hi Nadg63,

    Did you check the spindle nuts and the motor brake?
     
  3. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Yes Simon, had an engineer check out those two weeks ago.
     
  4. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Hi nadg63

    With a Polar cutter you may have different failure regarding the positioning.

    The backgauge does go to the position and machine gets you an error message. This would be for example: POSITION NOT ACHIEVED – 79 or NO POSITION COUNTER IMPULSES – 654. In these case the computer understood, something is wrong. In other words you can see the error message on the screen and hear the beep.
    In other cases the positioning is done and suddenly the measurement at screen is changing. This is for example because the scanning head in the linear scale had an incorrect movement (bouncing forward and backward) or something of the backgauge drive is loos and allows a movement which becomes registered by the control system. In other words you can see the changing of the backgauge position on the screen. An error message in in these cases possible
    Beside these situations you may have a wrong positioning without any indication on the screen. For example in case the linear scale is wrong counting or the trailer cable is broken and counting pulses are not transmitted. In this case mostly the last product has a different size, but if you pass the reference point the problem is mostly gone.
    The last group of problems would be a wrong cut. For example if the knife is not working correct. In this case you get no indication and often you have a deflection of the knife as well.

    The function ET means just a different (faster) way of programming.

    Coloured paper
     
  5. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Hi Coloured Paper.

    In the first case scenario, back gauge gets to posi, pauses, then jumps a small amount giving the "Position not achieved" message.

    In the other scenario according to the two figures on the screen the back gauge has reached posi ok BUT the size is varying whilst the onscreen display isn't - NO error message! ?

    As for the ET setting, no problem with the actual setting it's the jumping off the set posi that disrupts that.
     
  6. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    PS: any ideas as to where to look to solve these issues?
     
  7. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Yes!

    Changing the linear scale
    Eventually a broken trailer cable
    Low chance of mechanical problems with the spindle drive and the backgauge motor.

    Coloured paper
     
  8. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    The linear scale and reader cable have been replaced with brand new items! :-(
     
  9. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Now it becomes politics!

    Who changed the parts – Heidelberg?
    When where the parts changed?

    Coloured paper
     
  10. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    :)

    Yes, by Heidelberg, approx 3 years ago!
     
  11. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    You have a private message!
     
  12. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Update: things are improving, seems that they have found some main-board/controller issues related to the motor, brake and clutch along with a software glitch: these have been worked on and the guillotine has been behaving much better for the last 3 shifts :) (hasn't jumped 'off the mark' once!)
     
  13. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Thanks for the update!

    I believe in motor brake, spindle drive, etc. Software glitch I do not comment.
    Necessary the machine works.

    Coloured paper
     
  14. renform

    renform New Member

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    My Polar Guillotine EMC155 keeps giving me error 83 when starting can anyone please help
     
  15. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    We should take the other thread you opend
     
  16. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    Hi franco72!

    It is legitimate to look for customers. But I do not know if it would help in this case.
    If the 24V are not give to the light barrier you have no green LED active, like you interrupted the light barrier by a hand or some paper. That’s why error 83 is about the light barrier test. If I trust in the official text "the light barrier does not react to the test signal (before the cutting cycle starts) with the output condition INTERRUPTED” the designer assumes the light barrier was okay. But during the light barrier test the condition OFF was not given correct.
    Maybe you are right, but …..

    Coloured paper
     
  17. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Sorry for the delay, been a bit busy!

    Latest on this is that the machine has been 90% good, no more jumping off the mark etc BUT the latest related issue is that now it is very slightly varying the size of the programmed cut. Not a huge amount, 1mm at most but annoying all the same and time wasting checking.

    As an example, go through and set a programme, all good, next cutting sequence it will be a bit different and needs a re-set. Sometimes during the sequence it can be seen to vary, (if I'm lucky enough to have cutting marks to go by!), so this then has to be manually re-positioned for that cut. Have found that by sending the back-gauge off to near max and then automatically returning it to the required cut it will then stop in the correct position. NOTE:- on the screen the size required and actual size are shown as correct/matching!

    Guessing this is a brake/clutch issue!?
     
  18. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    I would try to talk to the Heidelberg agency. Somebody will check the machine and you have a change to negotiate.
    I would try at least.
    Let me know the result (using a mail here in the forum).

    Good luck
    Coloured paper
     
  19. nadg63

    nadg63 Member

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    Still on-going! After changing this that and everything they have now decided it's the scale, which was suspect No.1 in the beginning! No idea as to what they are doing now/next?

    With the scale, set it to 612mm and the machine will not have that size if the back gauge is travelling away, jumps off, but will coming forwards!?
     

  20. Coloured paper

    Coloured paper Senior Member

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    If you have an error message during the positioning, the computer understood there is something wrong. If you have first the correct position shown in the display and then it jumps away, the scanning head inside the linear scale is tilting.

    If the positioning is made and you got no error message, you have two possibilities.
    There is a counting mistake in the linear scale or the trailer cable is broken.
    The other possibility is a cutting problem. If the last product is not the same size like the one in front it can be just a wrong size adjustment, something with the knife, something with the paper, just wrong measurement. In this case I would ask myself, do I have the trouble with just one type of paper, or with just one knife, etc.

    The people from Heidelberg should be able to find it. Otherwise they can contact the hotline at Polar or just me.

    Good luck
    Coloured paper
     

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