We are fighting with Canon to be reimbursed for all down time usually about 6 hours each occurance from call to repair until finished . This is time that as a " print for pay " user I am charged for on my lease, and I am unable to print or generate any imcome while my machines are down. I AM ALSO TIRED OF PAYING FOR ALL UN USABLE CLICKS ON JOBS THAT DON'T BACK UP IN REGISTRATION AND ARE CROOKED AS A RESULT OF THE POOR FEEDER. WE ARE THINKING OF SUING CANON --- LET US KNOW IF YOU ARE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS BECAUSE A CLASS ACTION SUIT IS MORE EFFECTIVE THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL . THANKS PLEASE TELL OTHERS THAT MAY HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS.

With travel time, diagnosis, and parts acquisition, a 6-hour repair window doesn't seem unreasonable to me if unusable things are breaking; I'm not sure better can be achieved. Or are we talking about restarting developer or other routine every x-copies maintenance?

Is your service through "canon business solutions"?

And how crooked is the registration? (how many mm off is the image from one side to another, maximum?)

thanks for your response, but we have had over 85 service calls in the past year and a half, so I can't afford to be down for over 500 hours which is approximately 64 total 8 hour days without any production. As far as registration is concerned we have had prints 11 x 17 that are crooked by as much as 1/4 inch. After 30 years in the printing business I feel this is unacceptable. The other problem we have been having recently is a color variation as well as rain-bowing throughout the printed job. So I am not a happy camper

We have had many many calls on our 5100. It's the same frame as the 4000, but faster.

It seems pretty twitchy, and is down a lot. We don't have your feed problems, but we do have a lot of problems.

1. It's like it has a bad spot on the back side of the engine that constantly thins out coverage. It happens fairly regularly, could be a regular maintenance item that is brought on by need for cleaning.

2. It won't hold color for more than a few thousand sheets, sometimes a few hundred. It seems unreasonable to me for a production class machine to go in and out of color as fast and as far as it does. Why bother with ultra accurate calibration with a densitometer when you never know how long it will last? Pantone matching? Ha!

3. Coated paper... Don't even get me started. Won't duplex text weights, very finicky about paper type in the R1 deck, wrinkles, flakes, or bakes. You can only print coated heavy from the big deck. Bypass has major deletion problems on Heavy card.

4. Dusty, black and cyan for us, but reputedly a dusty engine since the 700 series from mid-90s.

5. Haloing from text to solids, a weak point for many engines, Konica is even worse, but not a good attribute.

6. 12x18 - It's a good thing we trim down all our 12x18 because the poor dear won't hold image on the outer 1/2 inch worth a dang.

7. Drum areas are very touchy. We are constantly getting hairline deletions or full length fuzzy deletions.

8. Error codes will lock you out and can persist for days or weeks while service techs scratch their heads.

It's a good thing our contract was built to be a bridge plan to the ImagePress 7000 or I'd be after someones head. I'll be glad when we pack ours up to leave the shop.

souonds like our machine-- Canon is going to replace ours as part of our 100 % satisfaction guarantee but I am still getting names of other shops and information about their losses because we are entitled to be compensated for all of our down time.. Think about it it costs you about $15.00 per hour in lease payments for your machine that you have nothing to show for figure out what they owe you if you multiply $15.00 times as many hours as your have been down.. I have and I want the money refunded to me !!! Good Luck with your new 7000 and keep in touch maybe we can all get some money from them. Gary Delatush Boro Printing, west long branch , new jersey

November 27th, thats when my CLC4000 leaves my shop for GOOD!

After 2 years and 2 CLC4000's I have had enough headaches and downtime. I am getting a Xerox Docucolor 8000AP. I have had Canon regional service techs in my shop 4 times, and have had discussions with everyone up to and including Janet Cain who is Director & Assistant General Manager of Production and Imaging Systems group of Canon USA. All they do is agree on the problems and tell me to get an ImagePress 7000vp, NOT!!!!

After 7 Canon products I will never buy another!

As for your replacement, expect it to work OK for the first 250 - 300K after that it will tank out! I am now going through a set of fuser rollers a week, developer only last about 15K. I am pulling out the primary grids and cleaning them myself to get rid of the streaks, it's just a piece of JUNK!!!!!

Good luck with the class action, but my advice to you is run to your Xerox dealer and see what they can do for you.

Oh buy the way the ImagePress was only beta tested in 3 or 4 locations for 4 months, and one location ran the bulk of their black and white only on it! (free clicks) If I recall what I was told during a demo they only put 300 - 400K on them during the beta.

Sounds like you've already decided on Xerox.
Have you seen the 7000? Most of what I didn't like about our 5100 has been updated in the 7000. For another thread I think.

I have demo'd the 7000 as well as had to run several jobs on it when my 4000 was down for a week. Not as impressed as the Xerox 8000AP.

First of all it's too new for me, the 8000 has been out since 2004 and has had several upgrades since, second their track record with the 4000/5100 leaves a lot to be desired, they have made no attempt to solve any issues, what makes me think they will now?

Just sour grapes maybe, but after 12 years and 7 machines I expected a little more.