How to read (scan) plates???

Discussion in '4-Color Offset Presses +' started by impresslb, Nov 29, 2009.

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  1. impresslb

    impresslb Member

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    Hello,

    We have a roland 304-4 from 1999 with RCI. THe problem is that it takes ages to tune the RCI and get the ink right. We have to put each plate in front of us, and manually adjust the ink levels because our press came without a plate scanner to do this automatically and give us the result on a floppy that we just plug in the RCI console and voila.

    Can anyone suggest any machine, reader etc.... to help us automate this process ?

    Thank you.

    Fadi Rebeiz
    email@impressadvertising.com
     
  2. rolandman

    rolandman Senior Member

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    HI Fadi

    The Plate Scanner for a Roland is Called an EPS Scanner, it will scan the plate and then you can use special cards to put the info on and then pop it in the card reader which is on the console i'll try to find you one
     
  3. mutti8000

    mutti8000 Member

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    Rip

    Hi Fadi

    Are you using CTP?
    Another solution could be to install a RIP in you prepress that supports CIP3 and the get a link to the Roland. I can highly recommend StudioIP www.studiorip.co.uk it also support inckduct control in the simplest way. A printed page pr. plate with the values, to be passed on to the printer, for him to input in the RCI. We use this solution for our Roland 204, works great :)

    Contact me for a great deal on studiorip :)
     
  4. USAPressmen.com

    USAPressmen.com Senior Member

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    Your problem is that you have to manually adjust the ink keys before putting it on press? It takes me under 2 minutes and i dont have a plate scanner.. Am i misunderstanding this because I just don't see an issue with this?
     
  5. rolandman

    rolandman Senior Member

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    TBH its not an issue for me and no i dont htink your misunderstanding lol. but it must be an issue for him otherwise he wouldnt have raised it maybe the pressman is a bit slow with his m/r's
     
  6. luke

    luke Senior Member

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    USAPressmen.com - using cip 3/4 to preset ink duck keys and to flow from one job to the other is much quicker then doing it manually.

    You may well be a very good operator but a lot of pressmen running 4 colour presses can't achieve the quick makeready times when compared to auto inking/deinking that cip3/4 offers..

    If you can manually set the ink ducks then load plates - load paper and have correct density(acurate to a densitometer) and register in between 10 - 15 minutes while only using 20 -30 sheets to acheive this then I applaude you.
    most opperators take much longer then this..

    When we use auto inking / de-inking CMYK on our 4 colour press going from one job to the next it took us under 10 mins to acheive the following:
    -wash blankets
    -change plates
    -load paper
    -achive correct rego and density - start producing sellable sheets..

    Some of our run lengths were as little as 15 sheets "lol" for B card jobs so in this case shorter make ready the better.
     
  7. USAPressmen.com

    USAPressmen.com Senior Member

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    Luke,

    ok thanks, I wasn't thinking of the whole process of this... I understand now how it would save an extra M.R. and paper. I was just thinking about the actual keying in the plates and not the whole picture.

    Although personally, I'm still not convinced paying $$ for this piece of equipment would really be worth it. I suppose if you ran the press 24/7 then those extra 10+ minutes per job you save would add up and really make it worth it then - i guess it just depends on each shop.
     
  8. impresslb

    impresslb Member

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    Thank you for your help. Yes if you have a good deal on an EPS let me know.

    I will also try to look for other NON roland options and also like the Software option which may work.

    Thanks Again.

    Fadi Rebeiz
     
  9. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    Try this...there's a demo to download too, looks pretty cool.

    Virtual Scanner

    On the scanner issue... tried a couple of different ones in my time, Planeta & Komori and neither were as accurate as our pressmen.
     
  10. bjypani

    bjypani Member

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    A question on ink presetting with CIP3

    Dear All,
    I am Bijoy Pani from India. I am new to this forum. I don't own a press and I haven't operated one, too. I am merely a graphic designer, passionate about knowing how my design gets on to the paper and morphs into a finished product. Please accept my apologies if I am posting in a inappropriate thread.

    Now, we have a printer who has recently got into B1 arena. The press has CIP3 interface. But they don't have a CTP. All they have, is a smaller 4-up imagesetter. They have to enlarge the film to make B1 sized plates. I presume that the simultaneous CIP3 output from the RIP would contain image as in the film and the plate would have the enlarged version of the same. If my assumption is correct, how can the CIP3 interface be used for ink-key presetting in this context?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  11. silverlake

    silverlake Member

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    can any body tell me the procedure how i can use it i mean cip3 for ink keys setting before i put plates on machine for make-ready any one who is using it give me some suggestions to use it . thanks
     
  12. turbotom1052

    turbotom1052 Senior Member

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    manual ink settings

    i have found that the initial ink settings that i put into the press when looking at the plates tend to be closer to color than the settings coming off the plate scanner i used to use. bear in mind the plate scanner im accustomed to is probably 15 year old technology so im not sure how much better they have become but i can say with relative certainty that my initial settings get me where i want to be in a short time with little waste
     
  13. luke

    luke Senior Member

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    The cip 3 for the shinohara must be different as the cip3 file is sent to the computer system were the press console is, as soon as the file is sent to the computer system that is used to output plates to the CTP machine..
    the figures must be automatically made from the file..

    any way on the actual consol you have a set amount of paramenters that need to be set when CIP 3 is first introduced..

    How well you set these and how much fine tunning you do has a huge effect on how acurate your pre inking and auto inking will be. But once its done its basically a set and forget unless you were to change an ink supplier or chemistry etc..

    steps are. From memory (its been a while since Ive run that press)
    start of the day:
    load paper + plates
    -find the cip3 file on the computer - hit send to press
    -Hit SPIS button on press (the press automatically inks up, pre dampens, feeds paper)
    - during that run send your next cip3 file- hit send to conslole.
    - once the count has been reached on the job you running hit the deinking button ( the machine will run a few extra sheets and de ink slightly if its needed.
    -Clean blankets/load paper and plates
    -press spis button the machine automatically starts its cycle(adds ink if needed, pre dampens, feeds paper etc)

    Now we got the cip3 system very accurate by taking the time to fine tune the paramenters.. somtimes you could run jobs without having to alter the duck keys, other times you may make very minute alterations..

    Keep in mind for it to work accuratly the workshop needs to be a contolled environment - air conditioning etc.. As if your having to increase your metering roller speed by a good margin over the day to compensate for heat this obviously will have an effect on ink density..

    Good Luck --
     
  14. Prepressing

    Prepressing Member

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  15. Loupeyeyed

    Loupeyeyed Senior Member

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    We used Escko software for our profiles at my shop. It is great to have profiles but all they are is a starting point. The way the plate is scanned, read, and delivered to plate imaging is very literal in comparison with how a press operates. You will notice after using them that your key settings will be very choppy looking on your console. They are a great starting point but do not compensate for factors such as ink oscillation, paper surfaces and out of wack 0-sets on your fountains. When we first went to presets at my last shop, the owner expected 10 sheet make readies. Of course, he could laugh all the way to the bank if that was the case. I was running a 1999 Komori 6/40. Before it was all said and done, I had to change my o-sets on all process units to compensate for the differences in profiles. What your settings will start out at and where they will end by the end of the run are drastic. Ink, as we all know is oil based and also oscillates on the press. If the plate scan is identical to the coverage on the plate, which they were with the Escko software, these settings would never hold. I've heard of software provided by Man Roland that actually learns from the beginning scan and the final sheet. I didn't have that on my Komori unfortunately. I did learn however, how to tweak my profiles for every job, different stock, and even pantone colors and ended up mastering my settings before I pulled sheets. One tip that's very important, always duct 5 - 10 or 15 ducts of the new profiles on to your rollers before even making a pull. This was my huge time-saver. Once again, you cannot always do that, lets say if you were going from an offset cover stock with huge solids to a 19x25 silk text with light coverage. You would have too much ink on the rollers. My answer to this was re-sizing the press to 26x40 and turning my waters off for a pull of somewhere between 15 and 40 sheets to take the ink down. It was a huge adjustment from keying the plates but in the end, much faster. But you will never get 5-10 sheet make readies on an offset press. Just too many other factors involved, it's just a shame the owners don't realize this.
     
  16. silverlake

    silverlake Member

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    I appreciate the comments & suggestions but no body is telling me about software name & give me the name of hardware name where i can purchase the card reader & writer to feed the information into my machine Thanks
     
  17. RichardK

    RichardK Senior Member

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    But then, Silverlake, you're not giving us the basic info to help you...

    how about the type of press you are running, year of manufacture etc?

    As for software, you need to read the thread again from start to finish, there are several instances of software names and links (I posted one myself).
     
  18. Loupeyeyed

    Loupeyeyed Senior Member

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    Escko,Escko,Escko!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. silverlake

    silverlake Member

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    machine is heidleberg pm74 2005
     

  20. Loupeyeyed

    Loupeyeyed Senior Member

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    If the owner of the shop cannot make some calls and get the proper or compatible software in there, then just key them in. Pull the proof out and start to key them in by hand. You don't lose that much time and like I said before, pre sets are not perfect. They are much too literal for an offset press. It should minimize your make-readies but then again, had guys at the shop who could get the color balanced for them by a serious pressman(LIKE ME), but by the end of their run, the color and fit were shot. You have to want to print like a pressman to do so. If all your after is a paycheck, then you have a world of trouble to face, especially with this boss. I say leave the software purchase up to him or contact a HEIDLEBERG rep that can steer you in the right direction.
     
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