Beginner question - blackest black using triple-printed pantone black

Navigateur · Sep 24, 2009

Hi, I was wondering if it is a) possible and b) sensible to triple-print pantone black.

a) possible? If so... how does one achieve it?

b) If 100% x 3 is used, = 300%, is this an acceptable total ink coverage for 3 x pantone black? Also, if I have small but not tiny white text (on white stock), will some of it disappear, vs, say, double-printing?

So many thanks,
N

(Off topic, is screen-printed pantone black darker than litho-printed black, single layer?)

RichardK · Sep 25, 2009

Depends on the press...we had a requirement to print the deepest black possible on an uncoated sheet. 2 hits was sufficient.

After all when you reach paper saturation you won't get any 'blacker'.

How small is your text? A good press Komori, Heidelberg should be able to cope with 6 point white out text or even 5pt.

But that depends on age and condition of press, quality of paper stock.

I suppose screen printing can lay down a thicker ink film but then your text will be screened - not good!

5150pressman · Sep 30, 2009

When you say Pantone black are you talking about the one you use for mixing?
The pantone black is a very weak black. If you want a dense black ask your ink dealer for a dense black.
You can add some reflex blue into the black to help it look blacker.

RichardK · Oct 1, 2009

whatayanuts said:
assuming you want it to look very rich in color. the best black is two or four color
100% k 60% cyan screen plates will work. or you can throw in 40% magenta and 25% for uncoated paper
using 4 color process colors. trying to double hit tight register through a QMDI classic is not a good idea, especially on thin paper.
with running a dip sheet and no true side guide.

Errr...how do you know he's running a DI Classic?

Double hit, to me, means 2 plates same image and ink printed inline (wet on wet). Most well kept top name presses should be more than capable of this as well as holding small text open.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your rich black breakdown.

You stand a good chance of adding hue of either warm or cool tones to the job. As well as making it hard to repeat.

If you're gonna do it try c40 m40 y10 (adds a nice sheen to coated stock, wouldn't use it for uncoated stock) and k100. This should maintain the neutrality if kept in balance...and that's my point, with the job our friend is asking about it's all about density not hue.

Two hits of a dense black...you ain't gonna get blacker than that. IMO

whatayanuts · Oct 1, 2009

RichardK said:
Errr...how do you know he's running a DI Classic?

Double hit, to me, means 2 plates same image and ink printed inline (wet on wet). Most well kept top name presses should be more than capable of this as well as holding small text open.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your rich black breakdown.

You stand a good chance of adding hue of either warm or cool tones to the job. As well as making it hard to repeat.

If you're gonna do it try c40 m40 y10 (adds a nice sheen to coated stock, wouldn't use it for uncoated stock) and k100. This should maintain the neutrality if kept in balance...and that's my point, with the job our friend is asking about it's all about density not hue.

Two hits of a dense black...you ain't gonna get blacker than that. IMO

Im sorry usually when i log in it takes me to the QMDI post. If your not familiar
with the QMDI Press then you wouldnt know. the usual laws of printing in some cases do not apply and you have to compensate on some aspects.
I apologize for the wrong post.

RichardK · Oct 1, 2009

No apology required.

I couldn't agree more re: ' usual laws of printing '.

Sometimes you have to make a job print...and that takes knowledge, experience and initiative (as well as a good helping of luck!)

turbotom1052 · Apr 12, 2010

richard is right... the paper will only hold so much ink!!! the downside of piling the ink on like that would be that the job becomes risky from the standpoint of offsetting ink or problems in the bindery from such a thick ink film. a double hit black should look plenty black as long as your using an ink with decent density. i dont think that pantone black has the required density to get you where you wanna be. Pantone black is for mixing not so much for printing unless of course its neutrality that your lookin for.

print101 · Apr 20, 2010

We do a job that requires the black solid to look as black as possible, the job also has white type (reversed out). We have found that running too much black to get the result on one unit was causing the type to fill in.
So we now run 70% screen on the one unit with the type slightly spread (bolder), the next unit we then run the original black solid. Register isnt a issue as the one type is slightly larger than the other, and the result of the black is great.

- running too much (triple ???) could result in major set-off (blocking) - try the above, it works well

Data · Jun 8, 2010

As print 101 posting but using matt dense black. Then add coating/press varnish to bring it back if gloss is required

Beginner question - blackest black using triple-printed pantone black

Navigateur

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